withholding aid to israel. the white house is holding defensive weapons. their commitment to israel is ironclad. you have some democrats and republicans very upset about this decision to hold these bombs back from israel. that would have been more than 3,000 bombs delivered but the white house says at the bottom line is their concern about how those weapons could be used and they don't want to see more deaths in gaza which have now passed more than 30,000 palestinians there. so something we have heard from the vice president and other members of the administration is they do not want to see this indiscriminate is the term they're using, they do not want to see indiscriminate bombing of the area. they want to see israel take more precautions for civilians. >> thank you, we appreciate. and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this friday morning and all week long. have a good weekend, everybody. "morning joe" starts right now. it's funny while trump's lawyers are throwing their backs out trying to convince the jury that stormy made this sex thing

up, ted cruz is on fox defending trump by saying the opposite. >> there's no person on planet earth that believes donald trump has been sell -- celebate all of his life. that's not news. >> we have a lot on donald trump's criminal hush money trial. what a week it has been. stormy daniels wrapping up testimony with a contentious and bizarre cross-examination from trump's legal term. we'll get expert legal analysis on that and what we can expect in court today because it's not over yet. plus, we have reaction from capitol hill to president biden's threat to withhold some weapons shipments to israel over its possible invasion of rafah. more republicans are krilt -- criticizing the president and

he's facing backlash from democrats. and kevin mccarthy is having a hard time coping with the fact that mike johnson did something he could not. we'll show you mccarthy's dig at his successor. it seems, i don't know, not okay, will legal, good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, may 10th. with us we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department, elise jordan, and, willie, we end this week, i guess the way we began it, i mean, it's a really bad pun but a stormy week in court. truly for the former president. what can i say. >> and especially stormy yesterday, as stormy daniels was combative as she was grilled about the details of her story, the her account of what she says happened in 2006. a donald trump hush money criminal trial picks up later this morning, a day after stormy

daniels finished taking the stand, testifying for more than seven hours over a two-day period. the defense tried to poke holes in daniels credibility, accusing her of extortion, rehearsing her testimony and changing her story over the years, all of which daniels denied, going toe to toe with the defense attorney. daniels said if she were making up her sexual encounter with trump, she would have written a much better story. also during cross-examination, daniels testified she never spoke to trump about the $130,000 hush money payment she received and had no knowledge of whether trump was aware of or involved in that transaction. when pressed, daniels noted she did not negotiate directly with cohen but that her lawyer at the time, keith davidson does. judge juan merchan denied a request for a mistrial from trump's lawyers. trump attorney todd blanche

claims stormy daniels' testimony describing her alleged encounter with trump was unfairly prejudicial. but the judge ruled they asserted in their opening statement no sex occurred, putting the jury in the position of choosing who to believe. let's bring in former litigator, and msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin, and msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos, good morning to you both. lisa, i'll start with you. down at the courthouse again yesterday, you were there. take us inside the room because just reading through this transcript, watching how combative it appeared to be, how stormy daniels held her own and held her ground as defense attorneys tried to shred her credibility, poke holes in her story. what were your take aways yesterday? >> stormy daniels is the rare witness who's better on cross-examination than she is on direct, willie. she really held her ground. that's an understatement against

a withering attack by the defense. one of the things that i think is interesting about yelled's cross is that as our colleague vaughn hillyard observed yesterday, what they didn't attack her for. really the core of her story about her sexual encounter with donald trump was not among the things that they tried to peel away or attack. they asked her, for example, for seven pages in the transcript to clarify whether they did or did not have dinner. they also tried to make her say that her story about whether she walked to dinner was or was not inconsistent. but the core of the story remained in tact, and the most that susan necheles did was said that it was incredulous, that stormy daniels acting in 150 to 200, would be scared or surprised to come out of the bathroom and find donald trump on the bed for her. stormy daniels said, look, if it

was my husband, but to open that bathroom door and to find donald trump lying on the bed for me at 60 years old, more than twice my age, and much larger than me, yeah, that was surprising to me. and so the implication that they were trying to make throughout the day that because stormy daniels has been an exotic dancer or adult film actor, that she should have seen this coming and indeed would not have been shocked by it, i think fell flat during the day. that having been said, they did poke a little bit, you know, here and there at the margins. they definitely exposed some inconsistencies, but we're also talking about a story that happened 18 years ago, and as a witness processes the story over time as we change culturally, too, it's no surprise that maybe the stormy daniels of 2024 processing what happened in 2006 sees those events differently.

it's impossible to put yourself back in the position that you would have been in the fall of 2016 in telling that story. >> 7 1/2 hours or so of testimony from stormy daniels over the couple of days, truly you have to stop and consider the surreal, historic nature of it, a porn actress sitting across from the former president of the united states making accusations while he's in the middle of a presidential campaign, by the way, but from your point of view, from where you're sitting, at the end of the day, what kind of witness was stormy daniels for the prosecution? >> unnecessary. stormy daniels in my view represents an unnecessary risk for the prosecution. here's why. i can't think of any piece of evidence that they got from stormy daniels on the prosecution that they couldn't have gotten or didn't already get from other witnesses. the transaction from cohen to daniels was established through other witnesses, including keith davidson, her former lawyer. to the extent that the value of the story increased as the

election approached, we have heard that evidence from other witnesses. look, stormy daniels was about context, and that's true. but when you think about all the other witnesses, madeleine westerhout, hope hicks, people with credibility, if you could get that evidence from them, why risk stormy daniels. you saw in stormy daniels a request for a mistrial which was going to be denied, but in my view the first major appealable issue you might see at the appellate division. if the prosecution gets a conviction and the case comes back in two years, and it's overturned, the conviction, the prosecution is going to ask was it worth it. the testimony given my stormy daniels, especially if they could have gotten the information somewhere else. i'm in the minority, i don't think stormy daniels performed particularly well on cross-examination. she's one of those witnesses that just decided i am not going to give a yes or no answer because i know that's what the

cross examining attorney wants. she fought back at every turn, and yes, to some extent, did she zing donald trump and the cross examining attorney, susan necheles, yes, but at the same time, witnesses who refuse to answer yes or no, refuse to give an inch, sometimes juries see them as concealing things, and that's what stormy daniels did. it may have played well with the jury, it might not as well. >> i'm going to push back on this because i'm curious what you think of the fact that it would be obvious that the defense would try and undermine her credibility, really try and, you know, put a frame around the incredulousness of her story, and who else would have the information like what was in his toiletry kit or other things that would prove that there was a transaction for sex. how else would they do that?

is there a different route she would take? she would make that connection. >> we're mostly on the same page. the point to be made is that the testimony could have been we had sex, and i have heard that argument. it's a fair argument that all of those details are important to establish that this happened, and judge merchan did point out that in their opening, the defense said, they didn't have to say this, that there was no sex. arguably, they opened the door to those details. but, again, the proof is really in the fact that this is the first request for a mistrial. and the point, judge merchan said we got into detail we didn't need to get into it. it's really not even me. it's judge merchan himself, expressed doubt. it's very rare for a judge on his own to say, hey, you know what, some of that testimony, it went a little too far. so if judge merchan is saying that, they have it on the record, and you better believe

when they take that to the appellate division, they're going to take that portion of the transcript and put it right in front to have the judges and make their argument. i go back to the fact that, yes, you can say that the detail helped with the context. yes, he used old spice and had the satin pajamas, that helps show that she's credible. the defense pointed out, this is not a sexual assault case. this is a false entries and business records and some other crime that we're not entirely sure what it is that is being appealed. but it's not a sex assault case, and even justice merchan acknowledged that they may have a point, not enough for a mistrial, but there's a point to be made there. >> the judge rejected their request for a mistrial and rejected the gag order. he kept it in place. lisa, do you agree that stormy daniels was an unnecessary risk,

and talk about who else we saw yesterday, madeline wester house. >> let's start with whether i agree with danny, i agree that she was an unnecessary witness. i also think when you're thinking about this case writ large, there are two parts of it, the falsification of business records and the underlying crime that donald trump was allegedly trying to conceal, and the prosecution has made clear at this point that that's a conspiracy to promote his own election through unlawful means. on the back end, the evidence of trump's own involvement is less direct than it is on the front end. you've got a lot of people talking about his involvement in the conspiracy. very few who can talk about his direct participation and the cover up of that crime. michael cohen being the only one to come to trial and say that. you've got to compensate by showing he had a motive to do it, and that, plus the circumstantial evidence of his involvement to take you over the line. i would guess that what the prosecution is trying to do with

stormy daniels here is show because her story was so credible. because she remembers all of these messy details, he absolutely had the motive to work with michael cohen and david pecker to ensure the story never saw the light of day and therefore cover that up through the business records falsification that we have seen the direct evidence of. in terms of madeleine westerhout, she was in many respects a mixed bag. she was a terrific character witness for donald trump, a man she really loves and to whom she feels a great amount of gratitude. she could not have been more ef ef fusive. she presented him with the checks to sign. she said he read everything before he signed it, and then she was presented with some evidence showing how careful trump was about his money, including an e-mail with rhona graff about whether or not

donald trump wanted to buy a $600 tiffany frame to put a picture of his mother in. rhona graff saying you ask him. managerial, tight fisted and the fact that he signed nine checks for $35,000, this is a man who knew what he was doing and wanted to do it. >> so stormy daniels, a mixed bag as to what the prosecution got out of it. the next big event will be michael cohen. how soon do you predict he'll go on the stand, and what are the risks and rewards of having him come and testify? >> you want to take this one? >> you're better at predicting for sure. >> at this point, elise, we have seen a lot of the witnesses that we expect. in looking at a count down list, who's left, there aren't that many to hear from. i would expect we'll hear from michael cohen relatively soon

perhaps as soon as next week. in terms of what they hope to get from him. michael cohen is the one witness who sees the story from start to finish, the formation of the conspiracy in august of 2017 to the very end of the repayment scheme in december of 2017. so they need michael cohen to thread it together. that having been said, think of michael cohen as an earthquake damaged building around which the d.a. has built a lot of scaffolding in the form of documentary evidence. we have seen texts, e-mails, bank statements, we have seen so much evidence, including excerpts from books he wrote, attack attack attack, never trump anyone, manage your own money. all of those things devastating. i predict as soon as today, we will soon what is, i think, the best evidence of all, three tweets from may of 2018 where donald trump essentially

confesses to the business records crime by saying, yeah, i repaid michael cohen, and there's nothing wrong with that. that will be devastating. michael cohen is the narrator, count on him to come in and be a summary witness. >> let's take the other side of this, where are the problems with michael cohen? >> michael cohen has huge problems and i predict that all the pushback you heard from stormy daniels, the inability to answer yes or no and fight on everything leading question, you're going to see that doubly with michael cohen. he used to be a lawyer. he understands what leading questions are. this is his moment in the sun, just like it was for stormy daniels, a good opportunity to be in the spotlight, which he enjoys. i expect that he is going to fight tooth and nail on cross-examination, which by the way doesn't always work, when you fight with a cross examining attorney, maybe it's great for

headlines. maybe we perceive it outside the courthouse as taking a swing at the defense, but in court, it doesn't always play that well. in terms of timing, i actually think we'll see michael cohen sooner than later, just thinking about this as a defense attorney that i think the prosecution has done well is move quickly. when you're a defense counsel, that's disorienting, especially when in this case you don't have a solid witness list and you don't know who's next, it can throw you off. if the prosecution moves quickly enough, i didn't ask all the questions i wanted to ask. i wasn't ready for the witness, and it can create chaos at the defense table. i think that's something they have done strategically. i don't know if it's intentional, but it feels that way, by being efficient, you keep the defense on their heels, and i think that may be what's going on here. >> i'll just say, as a watcher, it was disorienting, it was like, wow, wow, they just keep bringing them in. so, lisa, i'll ask you this, and i'm wondering if it backs up

danny's point about stormy. there was word yesterday that karen mcdougal would not be brought to the stand. is that related at all to stormy's very -- >> no. >> and i'll tell you why -- >> and talk about the speed of the trial. the reason karen mcdougal isn't coming in is because she is unnecessary. she's part of the conspiracy but when we're talking about the falsification of business records, the karen mcdougal payment has nothing to do with that. falsification of business records is about the repayment to michael cohen of the money for the stormy daniels settlement and then some. karen mcdougal was paid by american media. there's nothing that she has to do with the back half of the case that forms the crime. >> msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin, and msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos, thank you both very much. what a week it was, and it continues next week. still ahead in one minute, president biden is facing

criticism from republicans and now some democrats after warning israel that the u.s. won't supply weapons that could be used for an assault on rafah. we'll have the very latest from capitol hill. a lot going on today. you're watching "morning joe," we're back in 60 seconds. we're s

and we're back at 20 past the hour, republican lawmakers are criticizing president biden's threats to withhold weapons, shipments to israel. in an interview on wednesday, the president said he would not give the idf bombs and artillery shells if israel invades rafah. the southern gaza city where more than a million people have sought refuge. now some house republicans are trying to prevent any delays in arms shipments.

one texas congressman introduced a bill. another lawmaker is preparing articles of impeachment charging the president with abuse of power. meanwhile in the upper chamber, senate republicans voiced their frustrations saying the president's decision to delay arms to israel undercuts the $95 billion foreign ailed package congress approved last month. >> i fought for months to secure passage of the national security supplemental to support israel, ukraine and vulnerable asian partners and to make important investments in our own military. i stood up to the opposition of my own party to do the right thing. if the commander in chief can't muster the political courage to stand up to the radicals on his left flank and stand up for an ally at war, the consequences will be grave. >> this is insane what is being suggested by this administration

after the congress in huge bipartisan fashion supported over $14 billion to go to aid israel, this administration would decide unilaterally without any input from congress or anybody else, that because they don't like the way that israel is defending itself against this threat that somehow they're going to start cutting off the very assistance that the united states congress said that we want sent to israel, to our ally to make sure they're able to defend themselves and to root out this terrorist organization operating on their border. >> what you're doing is you're saying, hamas has put palestinians in the cross hairs of israel so stand israel down? that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard in my freaking life is that you tell the person who's about to be wiped off the map, you got to slow down because your enemy is making it hard on the palestinian people

to survive because they choose to put them in harm's way. that is ass backwards. >> joining us now, nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie tsirkin. good morning, we'll make the point again this morning that we made yesterday, you can debate the merits of the policy from president biden, but these are the very republicans who held up aid to israel and ukraine for months and months and months before finally getting to the $14 billion number last month. so, julie, though, let's talk about how this is playing on capitol hill. it's not just republicans opposed to the idea. senator john fetterman, rich richie torrez. >> i have heard from jewish democrats they are appalled by the biden's decision to review these weapons. you're hearing from democrats like senator tim kaine, others urging restraint on israel's part, careful to underscore that the biden administration is quote reviewing the weapons

transfer, not necessarily stopping it or halting it. biden's comments speak for itself, that press conference from senator lindsay gram, senator cotton, senator cruz, trying to say that because democrats wanted to impeach former president trump, wanted to try him on that because of his conversation, his phone call with ukraine's president back then for his reelection efforts, they say this warrants impeachment for biden, too, trying to draw a parallel there. this also comes down to the report that we are all anxiously awaiting, congress is awaiting. i talked to sources who say they could expect that report from blinken, the secretary of state today. that is a clause that biden himself had pushed for a couple of months ago at the behest of democrats who wanted him to do so. for israel to avow they are abiding by international law, to make sure they are preserving as

many lives as possible, to get american weapons, this is a report that congress is waiting on potentially today. we'll see what's inside there, but certainly this is a moment for biden as he tries to tow the line between supporting israel, between trying to appease his base and many of whom have been demonstrating on college campuses across the country the last few weeks, and this has become a partisan political issue that hostage families have told me when i talked to them a couple of weeks ago is not helpful, willie. >> this hasn't changed prime minister netanyahu's view much. we hope we can resolve our differences with president biden, but even if we don't, we're going ahead if we are alone. we'll say one more time that the republicans you heard railing yesterday, that foreign aid package that was supposed to give money to israel and ukraine, much needed over months was held up because they wanted to see action on the u.s. border first. that legislation had been taken care of in the senate, but they turned their back on it there.

that bipartisan legislation. let's talk about the white house you cover every day, and president biden what kind of a pickle he's in here, trying to appease his progressive base, who supports gaza, who doesn't like the way israel is prosecuting the war and maintaining this relationship with israel. >> a few things, willie, it's a bad faith comparison, saying this is akin to what trump did to zelenskyy, trying to extort zelenskyy to have an investigation into biden or he withholds arms. the u.s. continues to send weapons to israel. just saying we're not going to give things for this particular operation in rafah. i have new reporting, the administration, this was not a spur-of-the-moment decision. this has been in the works for weeks. the u.s. has been telegraphing to israel, we don't want an all

of operation in rafah. a member of the knesset hopes the president will take his mind. he thinks an invasion would help hamas's standing at the bargaining table and hurt israel. julie, it's a tough line for him here. they know that. republicans have been hitting him. some democrats as well including senator fetterman and a few others. congressman moskowitz and the like. democrats who have an eye on november, who see these campus protests and like the white house says, this is a decision made for national security purposes, not political ones. there's going to be a political fallout. what's that perception as to what the fallout will be? >> absolutely. and i'll take this one step further, jonathan. these democrats not only are seeing the protests play out. these protesters are coming to their homes, they see them outside the senate, constantly. outside of their offices. this is something affecting them too. while biden is of course at the top of the ticket, many of them are up for reelection.

chris van hollen, for example, over in a maryland, he's led the charge on sort of trying to force israel to abide by international law, by giving this pledge before biden put that provision in place a couple of months ago to force that very thing to happen, and certainly democrats are concerned about november. i talked to a number of voters, completely unrelated, covering the maryland primary yesterday, who told me in that case, where you're not seeing as many college protests, still happening at the university of maryland, who it would mel they checked uncommitted during their primary ballots for biden, just to send a warning, a message on the issue. this is spreading beyond michigan. this is spreading to other communities as well. who view what is happening in gaza as president biden said himself the other night during his interview that these are american weapons and bombs that are aiding in some of the

civilian deaths. this is something democrats are paying close attention to. you have some outliers in the likes of senator fetterman who think israel is doing all they can, while hamas is using as human shields. this is a tough dance for biden and he is trying to do it. we'll see if he can do it well and survive in november but he's not going to please anyone no matter what he does here. >> that is for sure. very difficult. other politics to talk about . former house speaker, kevin mccarthy is criticizing his successor mike johnson after democrats helped save johnson from being ousted from his speakership. take a look at what he said on "politico's" power play podcast yesterday. >> i couldn't live with myself if i did a deal with the democrats, if you can't sustain being speaker by your own majority, should you sustain it, my question, no, either i'm going to win speaker and be the leader with the majority, otherwise it's not right to be the speaker.

>> wow. there's so much there, julie. i keep thinking of the story that she did on the atlantic where the headline is could he be good at this job. he's working on a bipartisan level in some cases, and in many ways, pushing the extreme into the corner a little bit so that he can not only keep his job but get something done on capitol hill. what am i missing. >> you're missing nothing, mika. in fact, back in february, even january if you told anyone, republicans, democrats on capitol hill that mike johnson would be able to fund the government, to send aid to ukraine, to do everything he has in a bipartisan basis in the last couple of months without the border that was such a red line for republicans and still keep his job, i don't think anyone would have believed you. more than that, mccarthy's comments i find kind of rich because when he was going through this, when he was

ousted, he wanted democrats to at least save him in some manner. he tried to have them do that. in fact, he said after the fact that he was appalled that nancy pelosi, for example, turned her back, that she promised him back in january of 2023 that democrats would help him out if these conservative hard liners moved to oust him. he wanted exactly what mike johnson got. he just didn't get it because in my conversations with democrats, they didn't trust mccarthy like they trust johnson. they have been able to hammer out certain differences. there's a lot of differences, there's no doubt about it. but they definitely didn't trust mccarthy and see him in the same light as they see johnson. i think that is a very important distinction, obviously, mccarthy is out of the speakership, he's out of congress, but he might still have some bad blood for the eight who ousted him, and democrats who didn't help him out at all.

>> nbc's julie tsirkin, thank you so much for your reporting and insight this morning. we appreciate it. and coming up, russia fires a barrage of missiles across ukraine, targeting the country's energy infrastructure. we'll speak with a journalist who reported from the front lines of the war next on "morning joe." "morning joe." why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. shop now at sleepnumber.com

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russia unleashed a massive wave of missile and drone attacks across ukraine on wednesday, targeting the country's energy infrastructure. in a bid to knock out electricity in several cities. the institute for the study of war, a washington-based think tank says this is the fifth time in less than two months russia has launched a wide scale attack targeting ukraine's power grid. joining us from ukraine is journalist ilya padamarenko, a former defense and security rounder at the kyiv post and a cofounder at the kyiv independent. he has covered the war in ukraine since the beginning and is the author of the new book "i will show you how it was" the story of wartime kyiv. thank you so much for being with us this morning. we appreciate it. something in your book stood out and struck me where you said

ukraine has been fundamentally changed. over the last decade, but particularly over the last couple of years of this full scale invasion of russia. the civilian casualties we've seen, just even in the last couple of days, again, attacking the energy infrastructure in major ukrainian cities. how do you describe that change you've seen in yourself, perhaps, and in the people of ukraine? >> it is absolutely true, and i keep telling this anywhere i go that ukraine from let's say 2014 and ukraine right now or ukraine from 2019 and ukraine right now in 2024, absolutely different countries. in so many regards. culturally, we have become a nation of our own. it's a nation in which people from east, from the west,

finally have a big story of the common legacy, of the common heritage, the big grief that unites them, truly unites them. it's not that we are that different, ukraine from the east or west, but right now our generation has a big story of war, of common struggle, of a common loss, of something that unites us for the sake of saving our common hope. ukraine is absolutely different in terms of its political life. it's absolutely different from what it used to be like, that copy of russia in terms of political system, a lack of free speech, a lack of activity from inside the society, the lack of initiative from the society. i'm not saying the ukraine system is ideal now. at the same time, there has been understanding and sentiment of ukrainian people taking its

destiny in its hands and dictating authorities, taking charge of many things that happened in ukraine, opposing negative sentences in this country, corruption, abuse of power, illegal activities in the aspects of this country. so this is so different, but the biggest difference is of course the sense of unity, and sense of becoming a nation, a nation that wants to be dependent, that has produced a lot of cultural, civilization things that is understood by ukrainians, so in many ways we are -- we have become the nation in so many aspects amid this war, and especially this great loss, great grief of a full-scale russian invasion is of course a uniting factor. ukrainians are now united as

never before, and they are a nation as unique as never before. >> as you're speaking, we're looking at some images from friday in kharkiv. we're looking at images of kyiv from two years ago. as you write in the book, the wartime story of kyiv is an ongoing one. this is something that you all live with every single day. we, for two and a half years now, have lauded almost every day on this show and across our country the bravery, the courage, the will, the fighting spirit that the ukrainian people have shown, but my gosh, it has to be difficult every single day living in kyiv even still. so what is it like on a granular level for a family or for working people, just to go through the day under the threat of attack? >> you know, an important part of human nature is that humans can adapt to pretty much anything if they have to. especially if they feel motivated, and if they are

really effective at, you know, countering at what's coming against them, such as this war. you know, people have adapted. we have adapted to so many things that have changed our daily lives, such as power outages, missile attacks, shelling, and i'm talking about more or less peaceful cities like kyiv, for instance, that are more or less well protected. people do adapt to things. for instance, lack of electricity, and that was especially true in the first invasion with massive blackouts and power outages, we had our means, our technical things, like energy savers, energy batteries that are so widespread right now, power generators. when it comes to usual things like security, people adapt to this by trying to combine security measures with usual

business and life activities such as restaurants or pubs or cafes, working in basement venues so that you can provide security for your customers and also keep making money. providing jobs and making -- paying taxes. these are so many things that people have to adapt. one of the most important things is that this war has become part of harsh reality, but at the same time, it's also filled with a lot of things that inspire people, upset people, but in general, the system works. people keep finding their ways for normal life. in many ways, thanks to the exceptional valor of the ukrainian military and the assistance from outside ukraine. we have a pretty peaceful life in most of the territory of ukraine, such as kyiv, for instance. and thanks to this, many people have this ability to go on with

their lives, to do the work, you know, pay taxes, and keep the country afloat, and it avoid the social collapse that would greatly facilitate russia's war against this country. people adapt to things. when it comes to psychology and mental effects of this, of course this is especially hard for places like kharkiv. kharkiv is really having a bad time right now as russians have concentrated strikes on this particular city. at the same time, we have a lot of voices from kharkiv, for instance, saying that, yeah, things are pretty bad. still, we do not want to leave. we are here to stay. they feel motivated. >> the excerpt that appears in "the atlantic" of this book is titled, ukraine has changed too much to compromise with russia now. and the new book is titled "i will show you how it was," the

story of kyiv. thank you very much for sharing this story. thank you for your ongoing coverage in covering it and for the bravery of the ukrainian people. still ahead on "morning joe." >> did you know it was depression or did you just think, i'm feeling a little off? >> i think at that point, you know, like, i'll say as a male athlete, you know, like i could tell something was off. but i think i saw it as a sign of weakness and if i shared anything about it, then it would give my competitors an edge. >> that is of course olympic gold medalist michael phelps, talking about his struggle with depression through his record breaking career. nbc's kristen welker joins us with a preview of our exclusive interview for "meet the press." "morning joe" will be right back. oe" will be right back i want from my metastatic breast cancer treatment. and with kisqali, i can have both. kisqali is a pill

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welcome back. just about 10 before the hour. we're looking at a rainy new york city at 49 past the hour. let's take a look at the morning papers, we begin in ohio where the columbus dispatch reports state lawmakers failed to advance a plan this week to put president biden on the november ballot. under state law, officials must certify ohio's ballot by august 7th. but biden won't be officially nominated until the democratic

national convention 12 days later. governor mike dewine said biden will still make the ballot, whether he gets there through the legislature or the courts. let's move now to the arkansas democrat gazette, a front page feature on the department of veterans affairs, misusing millions of dollars. an investigation by the inspector general's office found the department improperly handed out nearly $11 billion in bonuses to more than 180 senior executives last year. the money came from funds that congress had earmarked to recruit and keep staff who were needed to process new veterans benefits. the head of the va reportedly ordered all the executives to give back their bonuses but many have already spent the money. to connecticut, the middletown press reports connecticut is set to join a multistate nursing compact. lawmakers passed a bill that will allow registered nurses to

provide care in connecticut and 41 other states without needing an individual state license. the move comes as medical centers are dealing with a health care worker shortage. according to one survey, nearly 1 in 5 u.s. health care workers have quit their jobs since the start of the pandemic. and in maryland, the capital gazette is reporting on the ongoing cleanup effort following the key bridge collapse in march. tomorrow crews are expected to use controlled explosives to remove a massive piece of bridge that is still on top of the dolly cargo ship. according to the paper, the ship is expected to be refloated and returned to port by early next week. we'll follow that. and coming up on "morning joe," donald trump goes on a campaign offensive. we'll play for you his critique of jewish democrats as he attacks joe biden over the president's threat to withhold u.s. weapons to israel.

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with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? show mom how dad lost the house. draftkings. [ applause ]. here's another heartwarming one, look at this one. >> at home depot, we care about what mothers need the most, lockable bathroom doorknobs because sometimes you just need five effing minutes by yourself to stare at your phone. home depot, this mother's day, mommy needs some alone time. >> mika, a very happy early

mother's day to you, mika, a couple of days away. i think both of those maybe hit close to home that jimmy had on last night, no? >> they did. but i'm at the stage where i actually really want the kids, i need them, but i remember that stage. and i already got my mother's day gift, willie, they gave me a ninja creamy, it's an ice cream maker. >> no way, a home ice cream maker. >> that's amazing. elise, what about you? yow got smaller people? >> the doorknob hit home. because she's 3 at this point, private time, bathroom is private time, so that's where we are. but it's a fun stage to be at. for sure. >> the ice cream maker is a good idea. happy mother's day to both of you, and i should say today is my dad's birthday too, so happy birthday to my dad. a weekend of celebration.

>> that's so awesome. >> yes. >> happy birthday, dad. we have this hour, joining our conversation, nbc news and msnbc political analyst, former u.s. senator, claire mccaskill, she and jennifer palmieri are co hosts of the podcast, how to win 2024. happy mother's day and pulitzer prize winning columnist, associate editor of the "washington post," eugene robinson. >> happy mother's day to all. >> yes. >> thank you. >> donald trump going on the offensive against robert f. kennedy jr. in a four minute video posted to truth social last night, trump ripped the independent presidential candidate, accusing him of lying about being antivaccine. he's not enough of an anti-vaxxer, according to donald trump. this comes as recent polls show kennedy taking a sizable bite away from both trump and president biden in several battleground states. here's some of the new video from trump. >> so republicans get it out of

your mind that you're going to vote for this guy because he's conservative. he's not. and for those of you that want to vote because you think he's an anti-vaxxer, he's not really an anti-vaxxer, that's only his political moment. i'd even take biden over junior because our country would last about a year or two longer with junior. we would collapse almost immediately, and his family, a radical left, a crazy left, a bunch of lunatics would take over and our country will die very quickly. so rfk's views on vaccines are fake as is everything else about his candidacy, he is not a republican, so don't think you're going to vote for him and feel good. >> claire, he has never been good at hiding his fear, and now we see it out in the open. he is very worried about robert f. kennedy jr., saying he is not anti-vaxx enough, don't believe what he's saying. i'm the real anti-vaxxer here. we should point out that donald trump's administration led

operation warp speed, which was a medical miracle, thank god, to get the vaccines into the arms of people and save lives. what do you see in that video? >> remember when trump still talked about developing the vaccine at rallies, and he got booed and finally figured out that this is a place that the cult was not going to go with him on how quickly he claimed he developed a vaccine during the pandemic. yeah, he's worried. he's worried. i thought the part of the clip that was astounding to me says he's better -- biden is better than bobby jr. he actually said biden is better. that's interesting that he would do that. i think that was a momentary fail in his normal way of communicating. i think both biden and trump are worried about rfk. i think this goes on, and bobby kennedy gets more and more exposed for some of the crazytown stuff he has said for his, frankly, not being up front

about some of his issues in his life. i think he will fade, but people need to remember, this is an election where nobody likes, well, most people don't like their choices. and that's just not an abnormal thing. you know, people -- there's a lot of people, by the way election rolls around and presidentials, they will say, i have heard it a thousand times, i don't like either one of the candidates, so having a third party name out there that people recognize is a danger to both of these guys. >> yeah, and gene robinson, we don't know yet who rfk jr. hurts more. early on it seemed more biden, now more trump. it's still an issue for both. so we see that trump has gone after him in that video. i'm just amazed he didn't mention the brain worm. >> exactly. >> the biden campaign has done the same, pointing out robert k.

junior's inflammatory statements. weigh in on that, and what do you see as the biden campaign's strategy against trump. akin to what obama did to romney, saturating the air waves with ads, defining the race as early as they can, with the moment that donald trump is stuck in a manhattan courtroom. >> that's right. first, rfk jr., i just don't, that was really weird, i thought, of trump. first of all, it's a weird line of attack to try to convince people that rfk jr. is not really an anti-vaxxer, he is the anti-vaxxer, he is more anti-vaxx than certainly anybody else who's anywhere near this race. and so that just doesn't -- that rings hollow, and i wonder if they have -- if the trump campaign thinks it has some soundings out there if some of the swing states that maybe he's hurting trump too much. maybe he's hurting trump more than than he's hurting biden and

that had a whiff of panic about it, it was really very strange on the biden strategy, yeah, i mean, they've got this sort of open field right now, and so the president is running around and his surrogates are running around trying to talk about the administration's accomplishments, trying to talk about the danger of donald trump. so i think that's really the thing for them to be doing. of course there are issues. there are lots of things that president biden has to be worrying about right now including israel, palestinian, and the war in gaza and splits in the democratic coalition over that. but i think he's doing what he needs to do.

i have a side question for lemire, what is the deal with your celtics they stunk up the joint. >> i'll do that real quick. thanks, gene, for bringing that up. >> this is who they are, they're so inconsistent, they can't handle prosperity. the second straight round, they have lost a game two at home. they're under .500 at home in the playoffs the last couple of years. it's infuriating. i think they'll get through the series. they're making it harder on themselves is the bottom line. oh, my lord. in a political week where i'm trying to encapsulate the things that happened this week, from worms in brain, to satin pajamas, spankings. and rfk jr. says he does not support the government putting limitations on abortion. even with full-term pregnancy. >> i wouldn't leave it to the

states. >> right. >> you would say completely it's up to the woman. >> we should leave it to the woman. we shouldn't have the government involved. >> even if it's full term. >> even if it's full term. >> okay. i think that's what i wanted to clarify. >> yeah, i would like a little clarification on that too. the policy position goes further than most democrats and seemed to surprise his vice presidential pick, nicole shanahan, who when she appeared on the same podcast. >> i spoke to bobby about this, and at the end of the day, he says, yes, this is a woman's choice period, and i said even up until birth, and yes, was his answer. >> no, no, no, and that is not bobby's position as i understand it. my understand with bobby's position is that, you know, every abortion is a tragedy. >> yes. he said that. >> a loss of life.

>> my understanding is that he absolutely believes in limits on abortion, and we have talked about this. i do not think -- i don't know where that came from. >> wow a significant change in position for rfk jr. in august of last year, he told nbc news he would sign a national abortion ban after the first three months of pregnancy. his campaign later walked back his statement on legislation banning abortion, and nicole shanahan is an interesting figure in all of this, and coming up in the 9:00 hour of "morning joe," joanna kohl's of the daily beast, they have a piece on her and the financial influence on the overall election, so we'll get to that coming up. let's back up a little bit, and talk about the stance on abortion that rfk put out there. claire mccaskill, this to me

seems like one of three major issues in this election that could put people over the edge in terms of their decision on who they vote for. what did rfk just do for himself there? >> well, he showed how unserious he is as a candidate. you know, mika, there are candidates all across this country right now, running for state representative. and running for county counsel that are thinking about this issue and searching themselves about what they believe the role of government should be in reproductive health care. and, you know, this is not an easy issue for many people because people feel so strongly about it. but it's not one where anybody with their right mind would be changing their position like you change your shirt. and it appears to me that bobby kennedy is searching for, quote unquote, the right answer. i mean, these are the kind of

mistakes that a candidate in the lowest office of the country might make. someone putting themselves out there that they are in a position to lead. for him to say one month i'm for an abortion ban, a national abortion ban, and then the next month say, hey, yeah, i think a full-term abortion is fine. i don't think the state should have anything to say about that. it shows he's not a serious candidate. frankly, i don't know what has motivated him to do this, but he's not in a position to hold the highest office in the country, period, end of discussion. >> and even worse, jonathan lemire, robert f. kennedy jr. definitely is the kind of guy who talks off his shoes and socks sitting next to you on an airplane as evidenced by his position. don't do that. there's no need for that. you mentioned a minute ago about how seriously the biden campaign is taking robert f. kennedy jr.

obviously donald trump is worried about bobby kennedy jr. here and the kind of voter he might take from donald trump. how is the biden campaign assessing the threat. as we have seen in polls this week, he's polling pretty high into the double digits, 14%, 18% in some of these swing states. >> i'm glad we have a shoes on policy here at "morning joe," although we should note not everybody has socks on all the time, i won't name names. i think we all know. but, yes, on this one here, first of all, the biden campaign has ramped up operations going after third party candidates. cornell west, jill stein who are barely picking up in the polls. even they matter but they're mostly focused on robert f. kennedy jr. low information voters see the kennedy last name, and say yes,

his father, his uncle, that's what i'm for, and may lose votes there, particularly in communities right now, african-american communities where the biden campaign has struggled some. they're doing their best, making sure voters know where he stands. there's a growing sense, willie, in wilmington that rfk jr. probably poses more of a threat to trump. it pulls from both, for sure, maybe more of an issue for trump. that's why we're seeing videos and attacks from the presump -- presumptive nominee. let's turn to the criminal case against former president donald trump, he will be back in court this morning as the hush money trial wraps up its third week highlighted by another day of testimony yesterday from adult film star stormy daniels. nbc senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has details. >> stormy daniels leaving court after a blistering

cross-examination. former president trump's defense team suggesting she's been trying to cash in on her story of sex with mr. trump at a celebrity golf tournament 18 years ago, which he denies happened. the defense accusing daniels of lying. trump attorney susan necheles hammering the years of acting and directing in the porn industry, gave her quote, a lot of experience in making phony stories about sex appear real. daniels fighting back that if the trump story was untrue, i would have written it a lot better. their exchanges growing heated. you have acted and had sex in over 200 porn movies, but according to you, seeing a man sitting in bed in a t-shirt and boxing shorts was so upsetting that you almost fainted. daniels defiant, noting mr. trump was twice her age and bigger. necheles saying, you made this all up, right? daniels forcefully responding, no. necheles pressing, your story has completely changed, hasn't

it? daniels, again, answering no, saying this signed statement, where she denied an affair with mr. trump was done while she was trying to comply with the terms of a nondisclosure agreement where she was paid to keep silent. daniels has a financial stake in trying to take mr. trump down after making more than a million off her story and books, a strip club tour, and various other merchandise on her web site like a $40 stormy saint of indictments candle. necheles accusing her of trying to make money to sell a story that you promised will put president trump in jail, right. daniels responding no. much of the testimony far removed from what the presumptive gop nominee has been charged with for allegedly falsifying his business records to hide a $130,000 payment to daniels ahead of the 2016 election. prosecutors say the payment was meant to keep her quiet so she couldn't derail his campaign. the defense says there was no

crime. it was all a shake down r. daniels testifying, quote, i was asking to sell my story to publications to get the truth out. necheles saying she could have done that with a press conference for free. daniels responding, i could have. necheles asserting you chose to take money. daniels saying, i chose to take the nondisclosure agreement. that lawyer saying she wanted this money more than you can ever imagine. on redirect by the state, daniels told the jury money didn't drive her motivation for signing that nda, quote, we are all happy to take money. it was just a bonus. later former trump aide madeleine westerhout testifying about mr. trump's reaction when the story about the hush money deal first broke, saying i remember he was very upset. the judge denying the defense's renewed request for a mistrial. mr. trump's attorneys argued

daniels salacious testimony was prejudicial. the judge refusing to change the gag order which currently bars mr. trump from commenting on daniels' testimony. >> everybody saw what happened today. i don't think we have to do any explaining. i'm not allowed to any. i've got to get back on the campaign trail. i'm not supposed to be here. we are so innocent. there's never been anything like it. >> yeah, yeah, i don't think i want to hear his explaining but he might have some explaining to do. that was nbc's laura jarrett with that report. joining us now is nbc news legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, andrew weissmann. andrew, the way stormy daniels handled cross-examination, there was a lot of zingers in there. it was, just to watch, like psych, was it useful for the prosecution to have her being number one for the prosecution so detail oriented and then

almost defensive at the defense cross? >> great questions. i think the details the state argued and i think they're right that the details mattered and the reason is this. they said it gave motive for the president to want to pay the hush money. in other words, what the jury was hearing, whether they believed it or not, because you don't actually need to believe it for this all to have work. she had a very detailed story and that's the detailed story that donald trump did not want the electorate to hear in october 2016 right after the "access hollywood" tape came out. and so the more sort of salacious, the more detailed it is, the more that he would have a motive to make sure that nobody heard it, even, by the way, if it were not true.

i was in the courtroom yesterday and the one thing i would say is i was somewhat surprised. she came off as a smart, careful, and unflappable witness. it was really quite remarkable. she gave very thoughtful answers. on the cold page it may read like a zinger, but the questions were so, at times, intrusive, they were so rude at times, that, you know, she actually was i would say is fairly controlled in responding. >> interesting. >> you know, i think other people might have been more upset at the questions. i think a lot of times defense lawyers ask those questions, so they do rile up the witness, say that the person loses their temper and she didn't fall for that. >> interesting, claire mccaskill, i'll let you take it to andrew, also would love to hear your take on how this went. danny cevallos is concerned

about stormy's testimony, whether it was necessary at all, especially causing problems on potential appeal. what did you make of the detail that she brought to the table and how important was it to what the prosecution is trying to prove? >> listen, the only reason that the prosecution had to put stormy daniels on is because donald trump had his lawyers stand up in opening statement and say the sex never happened. >> right. >> and once that occurred, then the prosecution had to put her on the stand because if they hadn't, imagine what the closing argument would have been. >> it never happened. >> so this was all trump's choice to present a defense that this sex never happened and this is all made up and i'm a perfect family man. this is the hole they're in, the defense team. but, andrew, i got to tell you, i read most of the cross last

night because i was curious, and i know i've heard you speak that this particular criminal defense lawyer is very experienced and knowing what she was doing, i was shocked that she went on for seven pages about whether or not they had dinner. normally they get the sense they're losing the door, banging on a door that's never going to open, and all they're doing is irritating people. it seemed like to me sthaechs -- that she was doing that. and i can't figure out if she thought it was effective or if she was required too it by her. huge swaths of the cross-examination, i would have given her an f, grading her in court. especially some of the questions where she knew what the answer was going to be, you made this up, didn't you. that's a rookie mistake. why would you ask that when you know the answer is going to be a definitive no? i don't get it. >> well, you picked, claire, the

absolute worst part of the cross-examination for the defense. for everybody i talked to, it was sitting there listening to the cross-examination on whether she went to dinner, went there to have dinner or whether she actually ate dinner did go on and on and on and on. and it was one where i just think that susan necheles must not have been reading the room, and didn't understand and this is sort of something you really need to do if you're a defense lawyer is to, you know, when a line of cross-examination isn't working, you move on. i mean, not every line of cross-examination is going to work, so you try different things. you have different irons in the fire, so to speak, and, you know, that was the absolute lowest point. it was trying to bring out an inconsistency in the story, whether when she went to the

room, she was actually eating dinner with donald trump, and she has consistently said i never ate. it was just a bizarre moment. so i agree with you that susan necheles, it was not her finist moment. she did much better in talking about the financial motive and all of the money that she's made and the ways she's tried to make money. that was a better line of cross-examination. i thought the other thing that you played which was a particularly poor line of cross-examination, that felt very classless and had to do with the adult entertainment, that was where stormy daniels was talking about somebody you're rooting for. she was talking about essentially that doesn't mean i wouldn't be shocked by seeing a 60-year-old man suddenly wanting to have sex with me when that

was not what was expected. a funny line, i see my husband every day, and he can be in his boxer shorts, it's very different if i came out of my bathroom into my bedroom and saw donald trump there. you know, it was shocking and surprising. so she just had some very thoughtful answers to a cross-examination that at times, as you said, claire, really fell flat. >> all right. how do you feel again, we talked a little bit earlier in the week about the timing of this. it seems like they're moving people through at a blithering pace. >> absolutely. so that is a sign of a very skilled prosecution team to keep things moving. you know, i think very soon, if not today, i think very soon we will see michael cohen. that's the last sort of big witness. i would make a point that, you know, we're talking about stormy

daniels because it's a very colorful witness, but just understand the logic of this. she was cross examined, hammer and tongs by the defense here, but the witnesses who really hurt her were hope -- i mean, donald trump, were hope hicks and david pecker, and they were treated with kid gloves. it's an odd thing going on in this courtroom. logically, as claire knows, you would go after the witnesses that really are hurting you in the trial. they really didn't, in any way, try to impeach hope hicks or david pecker who have devastating testimony with respect to donald trump, and here, as i said, it doesn't really matter whether there actually was sex with stormy daniels or not. there still is a motive to suppress your story, and it's clear she was paid hush money to suppress her story. all of those are givens. former federal prosecutor, andrew weissmann, i'm sure we'll

be talking to you again a lot next week. thank you for your analysis this week. still ahead on "morning joe," president biden's threat to withhold certain weapons from israel if it moves ahead with a full scale invasion of rafah is creating division among democrats. nbc's kristen welker joins us next for more on that and as we go to break, willie, what do you have planned for "sunday today," i'm excited. got a good one this weekend with mr. jimmy fallon, our neighbor upstairs at 30 rock as he celebrates ten years as host of the tonight show. can you believe he's been in that chair for a decade. took us inside the office, backstage, some secret places, trap doors where he comes out on the stage. amazing stuff. so much fun with jimmy recounting his ten years in the chair and his rise from a kid who loved snl and comedy to be on snl and to host "the tonight show," jimmy fallon on "sunday today" on nbc this weekend.

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and they're all coming? those who are still with us, yes. grandpa! what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. 28 past the hour. donald trump says jewish americans who vote for president joe biden should be, quote, ashamed of themselves. he made the comments on three separate occasions yesterday as he has done a number of times since the war between israel and

hamas broke out. take a look. >> if you're a jewish person, just don't vote for biden who doesn't know where he is, who can't put two sentences together. he doesn't know what he's doing, frankly, he's incompetent. don't vote for biden, you're really hurting your country. he has totally gone on the other side. he's dropped israel. if you're jewish and you vote for him, i say shame on you. what biden is doing with respect to israel is disgraceful. if any jewish person voted for joe biden, they should be ashamed of themselves. >> crooked joe hates israel and he hates the jewish people. there's no question about that. and if jewish people are going to vote for joe biden, they have to have their head examined. >> okay. all right. joining us now, the moderator of "meet the press," kristen welker, great to have you on the show. a lot to talk about. let's start with this.

joe biden has been pretty clear about his concerns over israel's response to october 7th and concerns about moving in on rafah. and obviously the civilian lives at stake here and those that have been lost. it's a very complicated situation. now, you have donald trump chiming in the way he has, and even now democrats. some are concerned or, you know, raising real pushback to his wanting to pull back on weapons to israel, aid to israel. republicans are speaking out as well. it's quite a task for the president to manage moving forward, especially with politicians from both sides of the aisle chiming in. >> well, mika, it's so great to be with you. and you're absolutely right, and you underscore just how fraught this situation is. those comments from former president trump, a lot of people

in those comments hear echoes of an old anti-semitic trope. we should say that at the outset. in terms of the politics for president biden, this could not be more complicated, mika. you do have republicans, including senator lindsey graham who we'll have on "meet the press" exclusively on sunday coming out and saying, look, you are essentially abandoning one of america's closest allies, then you do have divisions among democrats. senator bernie sanders, an independent who caucuses with the democrats will have exclusively on the program on sunday, defending this move by president biden, saying look, this is an important first step. sanders is actually calling on president biden to go even further, mika. he says that the u.s. should be using the full weight of leverage to pressure netanyahu to mitigate and to have a clear plan to protect civilian lives. but there are divisions among

democrats over the very issue, not only the protests we have seen on college campuses, but some democrats who are concerned about the fact that what will this mean that president biden is threatening to withhold. i just spoke to someone very close to the campaign to president biden. this person tells me, mika, that look, a couple of things. one, this aid that president biden is threatening to withhold is not the aid that was just approved by the congress. that aid is going to move forward. the second point that this person makes is, look, yes, an acknowledgment that the politics of this are hugely complicated. but they believe ultimately, ultimately, when you talk to voters who are upset over this issue, they say, we are very frustrated with the president, but we also plan to vote for him because he's better than former president trump on this issue. if you're upset about the civilian casualties, mika. >> kristen, elise here -- >> hi elise. >> what are you hearing from

your sources on the biden and trump campaigns about how much they see the war in gaza as a defining political issue this campaign cycle? >> it's a really important question, when you talk to folks inside biden world, they say this is not going to be a top voting issue for voters, including for young voters. they believe top issues are going to be things like reproductive rights and the economy. so that's why i think you're going to see the president, the vice president continue to lean into those issues on the campaign trail, trying to navigate the tricky politics of what's happening in the middle east. on the other hand, republicans think the top issues are the economy, the border, and yet they see this as a vulnerability, so you can expect them, elise, to try to capitalize on that vulnerability at every turn. >> kristen, i want to talk about another incredible moment that happened on your show, "meet the press," last sunday with senator

tim scott, you asked him, i think it's six times about whether or not he would support the results of the election. i want to show that moment. gene's actually writing about it, so we'll talk on the other side. take a look. >> senator, will you commit to accepting the election results of 2024, bottom line? >> at the end of the day, the 47th president of the united states will be president donald trump, and i'm excited to get back to low inflation, low unemployment. >> senator, yes or no, will you accept the election results of 2024 no matter who wins? >> that is my statement. >> but just yes or no, will you accept the election results of 2024? >> i look forward to president trump being the 47th president. kristen, you can ask it multiple times -- >> just the answer the question. >> the american people will make the decision for president trump, that's clear. >> i don't hear you committing to the election results.

will you commit to accepting the election results? >> this is why so many americans believe that nbc is an extension of the democratic party, at the end of the day, i said what i said, i know that the american people, their voices will be heard, and i believe that president trump will be our next president. it's that simple. >> and that was the short version. it was so cringe worthy, and kristen, great work, but he never gave an answer. he refused. gene, you're writing about this, i mean, i know there's the veep stakes going on and people are killing dogs, telling people about it, thinking that will give them bang for their buck. but come on, man, are you serious, tim scott? gene. >> i mean, there's only one answer to that question, right, there's only one right answer. of course i will accept the results of the election, no matter, you know, whichever way it goes. and the fact that he just could

not say that and would not say that, after six valiant attempts, kristen. i watched that and i thought you were like a dog with a bone. you would not let it go. but he wouldn't say it, and so, you know, there are some other republicans who are playing this same sort of the dance, and not giving straight answers to that question. kristen, are they just playing to an audience of one? are these the vice presidential hopefuls who are playing to donald trump or are they playing, do you think, to the larger republican constituency, at least a maga constituency, and they actually think there's an audience for this? >> well, gene, and i read your column, and it is fantastic because i think it hits at the heart of it. look, yes, i think they're playing to an audience of one.

i think that senator tim scott made that clear, not just in that exchange, guys, but when i asked him about abortion, remember, during the primary, he said that he believed the commander in chief should support a 15-week federal abortion ban. he walked away from that position as well. so i very much think that he, doug burgum who had comments over the weekend effectively trying to say there were real challenges with the 2020 election results, and others in these appearances are playing to an audience of one as well as to the trump base, and remember the context, mika, and gene, and everyone, this came after that big event at mar-a-lago when former president trump was hosting a number of his potential vp picks. it's our reporting that senator tim scott is among those on the short list. we have heard trump over and over again praise the way that scott has talked about him on the campaign trail in the wake of dropping out of the presidential primary. so i do think his comments were just so extraordinary because

they underscore one thing, which is that for trump, loyalty is the most important quality here. >> and we've reached the day where that is a difficult question. you certainly tried, kristen, it shouldn't be hard, but it was for senator scott. now, talk to me about your range as a host, we are less than 100 days from the paris olympic, and you sat down with 23-time olympic gold medalist, michael phelps for a meet the moment conversation. talk about what we'll see on sunday. >> well, willie, this was just extraordinary conversation. michael phelps is the most decorated olympian of all time, and he has been quite candid about his struggles with mental health, with adhd, and so we sat down and talked to them for a wide ranging conversation. he's now a father of four. he of course has stepped back from being an olympian, but here

we are in mental health awareness month, and he is as outspoken as ever. he says he first realized, really realized there was something wrong after the 2004 olympics. take a listen. >> did you know it was depression or did you just think i'm feeling a little off? >> i think at that point, you know, like, i'll say as a male athlete, you know, like i could tell something was off. but i think i saw it as a sign of weakness, and if i shared anything about it, then it would give my competitors an edge. and i'm not trying to do that. right? like i don't want to give any competitors an edge. i'm trying to be better than anybody, period, has ever been. for me, i looked at it as weakness. for me, i had to learn that vulnerability is a good thing, and it was scary at first. but i learned that vulnerability just means change. and for me it was a great change. >> now, he also talks about the fact that the olympic committee

has made strides since he has retired. he has praised his fellow athletes and olympians. naomi osaka, simone biles, speaking out about their struggles with mental health. he has a very powerful message in this interview as well. he wants the olympic committee to do more. he believes they can provide more resources for their athletes and make this more the focus. that's just a small part of our conversation that we will be airing this sunday on "meet the press." >> well, talk about range. you'll have that this sunday on "meet the press." you can also see kristen's exclusive sit downs with senators bernie sanders and lindsey graham, as well as more of her meet the moment conversation were michael phelps this sunday on "meet the press," nbc's kristen welker, thank you for coming on "morning joe," we're honored. >> thank you for having me. i'm honored to be here. >> of course. take care, we'll see you sunday. and coming up, a new book is detailing how the 26th president

of the united states was shaped by the women in his life. the author and ceo of the theodore roosevelt presidential library foundation joins us ahead with that story. we'll be right back. k. bombas makes absurdly comfortable underwear. made to move with you, not on you. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts.

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today that out of 16,000 deaths, ten were preventable, that they would perhaps turn to an old book they may not have read carefully but still has the largest circulation of any book in the world. it is called the bible, and they will search in the prophets and they will find it takes years of praise for the spirit of heavenly. >> wow. that was former first lady edith roosevelt, the wife of the 26th president of the united states, teddy roosevelt speaking about women's health issues in her first ever taki recorded back in 1931. joining us now, ceo of the theodore roosevelt presidential library foundation, edward o'keeffe, the author of the new book entitled "the loves of theodore roosevelt the women who created a president," thank you for being on. congratulations on this book.

that was incredible to watch that video. who are the women who created the president? beyond edith. >> mika, it's wonderful to be with you. thank you. the loves of theodore roosevelt makes the argument, theodore roosevelt was the product of women, two sisters, two wives, and his mother, of course. >> this book is amazing to me because i love a good unsung women in history story, and when you think of t.r., you think of him out on the frontier, so masculine, and can you tell us the story of what led him to north dakota? because it really is such a moving and emotional drama that he went through. >> elise, it's unbelievable. it's february 14th, 1884, theodore roosevelt rushes back from the new york state assembly because he has heard that his wife alice, who has just given

birth to their first child is not well. he arrives through this extremely thick, dense fog, and it's so thick that the "new york times" says it's suicidal weather. you can't see 2 inches before your face. and he arrives at his home at 6 west 57th street and his brother has said there is a curse on this house. mother is dying and alice is dying, too. he runs up to the third floor. he holds alice until 2:30 in the morning when he's summoned down to the second floor. his wife, the source of his ebb personality, she succumbs to typhoid fever. he holds his wife alice in his arm until she too dies at 2:30 in the afternoon. both his mother and his wife on valentine's day. that's what brings him out to the badlands of north dakota where he recovers in nature and feels the power of the badlands,

65 million years of g geologic history. so little is known about alice, she's athletic and vivacious, she's the most eligible bachelorette in boston when theodore roosevelt, this odd taxidermist meets her and pursues her for the better part of the two years. alice changed the trajectory of theodore roosevelt's life, and as a result, the nation. >> tell us how this book came about and the discovery of these letters that really formed the backbone of this remarkable book. >> thank you, jonathan. we came across 11 new letters that had been locked in a safe since 1954. greg wynn these reveal a part of theodore roosevelt's life. they have the details for the first time, and we have the advantage of 24 love letters

between alice and theodore. you know, theodore roosevelt, the rugged environmentalist known for mount rushmore and the feats of physical strength, he's saying to his wife, there's nothing whatever else but you. the romantic side of this extraordinary president revealed for the first time. those letters, 24 of them, not available to prior books. >> truly a remarkable discovery, willie, to find a piece of history like that, to help define a figure who we all thought we knew so well. >> yeah, ed, i didn't know you were a safe cracker on top of everything else, getting into that safe. congratulations on this book, it's so fascinating. one of the big themes people take away from this he may have been rugged, but he wasn't necessarily self-made like so many prominent men. he had an awful lot of help from the women around him. >> willie, that's exactly it,

right? that's the story i was told about theodore roosevelt growing up is this myth of the self-made man, and all of us have, if we're fortunate in our lives, brothers, sisters, mothers, a husband or a wife, a colleague, a friend, somebody who picks us up when we're down, and propels us forward, right? it's mother's day on sunday and i think we can stop and appreciate that theodore roosevelt's mother was a source of strength in his life. it doesn't diminish theodore roosevelt to understand that he needed help, and i think that all of these women, his mother, his two wives, his sisters, you know, his sister is an extraordinary figure, right? eleanor roosevelt says had she been a man, she, not theodore would have been president of the united states. franklin roosevelt says, she was

genius without being conscious of it. they have been written off in history and it's time to take their stories out into public view. i think it's important these stories of women are told. we don't have the stories of queens in the uk, and those women are in powerful positions and they tell future generations, this is possible for you too, and that's why i think it's important to tell the story we tell like theodore roosevelt. >> the new book is entitled "the loves of theodore roosevelt." thank you very much, and congratulations on the book. we appreciate you coming on this morning. >> great to be with you. happy mother's day. >> still ahead. take care. thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i'm a lifelong republican, but that attachment holds second place to my responsibility to my country. joe biden is a man for our times, times that call for all

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it's funny that while trump's lawyers are throwing their backs out to convince a jury that stormy made this whole sex thing up, ted cruz is on fox defending trump by saying the opposite. >> there is no person on planet earth that believes donald trump has been celibate all these life. that is not news. >> thanks, ted. that's going to make mother's day with melania a lot of fun this year. >> oh my god. we have a lot to get to this morning on donald trump's criminal hush money trial. what a week, willie, it has been. >> yeah. >> stormy daniels wrapping up her second day of testimony with a contentious and at times, bizarre cross-examination from trump's legal team. we'll get expert legal analysis on that, and what we can expect in court today because it's not

over yet. plus, we have reaction from capitol hill to president biden's threat to withhold some weapons shipments to israel over its possible invasion of rafah. more republicans are criticizing the president and he's even facing backlash from some democrats, and kevin mccarthy seems to be having a hard time coping with the fact that mike johnson did something he could not, which is simply hold onto his job. we'll show you mccarthy's dig at his successor. it seems, i don't know, a little not okay, willie. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, may 10th. with us we have the host of "way to early," white house bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire, and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department, elise jordan, and willie, we end there week, i guess, the way we began it. just a -- i mean, it's a really bad pun, but a stormy week in

court, truly, for the former president. what can i say? >> yeah, and especially stormy yesterday as stormy daniels was very combative as she was grilled about the details of her story, her account of what she says happened in 2006. a hush money criminal trial picks up later this morning a day after stormy daniels finished taking the stand testifying for more than seven hours after a two-day period. he tried to poke holes in daniels' credibility, accusing her of extortion, rehearsing her testimony, and changing her story over the years. all of which daniels denied going toe to toe with the defense attorney in several sharp exchanges. at one point she said if she were making up her sexual encounter with trump, she would have written a much better story. >> oof. >> daniels testified she never spoke to trump about the hush money payment received from michael cohen, and she had no

knowledge if he was aware of or involved in that transaction. when pressed, she noted she did not negotiate directly with cohen either, but that her lawyer at the time, keith davidson, did. meanwhile, judge juan merchan for a second time denied a second request for a mistrial from trump's lawyers. todd blanch claims the testimony this week describing her allege sexual encounter with trump was unfairly prejudicial to the former president. but trump's lawyers opened the door to that testimony when they stated no sex had occurred, putting the jury in a position of who to believe. let's bring in lisa rubin and msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos. lisa, i'll start with you. down at the courthouse again. you were there. take us inside the room because just reading through this transcript, watching how combative it appeared to be, how stormy daniels held her own and held her ground as defense

attorneys tried again to shred her credibility, to poke holes in her story. what were your takeaways yesterday? >> stormy daniels is the rare witness who's better on cross-examination than she is on direct, willie. she really held her ground. that's an understatement. again, some withering attack by the defense, but one of the things that i think is really interesting about yesterday's cross is as our colleague, vaughn hillyard said yesterday, what they didn't attack her for, and the story about her sexual encounter with donald trump was not among the things they tried to peel away or attack. she asked her, for example, for seven pages in the transcript to clarify whether they did or did not have dinner. they also tried to make her say that her story about whether she walked to dinner was or was not inconsistent, but the core of the story remained intact, and

the most that they did was say it was incredulous to her that stormy daniels having acted in 150 to 200 pornography movies would be scared or surprised to come it of the bathroom to find donald trump on the bed for her, and of course, stormy daniels had a nice retort to her to say, look. if it had been my husband, i see my husband naked all the time, but to open that bathroom door and to find donald trump lying on the bed for me at 60 years old, more than twice my age, and much larger than me, yeah, that was surprising to me, and so the implication that they were trying to make throughout the day that because stormy daniels has been an exotic dancer or an adult film actor that she should have seen this coming and indeed would not have been shocked by it, i think fell flat during the day. that having been said, they did poke a little bit, you know, here and there at the margins. they definitely exposed some inconsistencies, but we're also talking about a story that

happened 18 years ago, and as a witness, processes is story over time as we change culturally too it is maybe no surprise, processing what happened in 2006, sees those events differently. it's impossible to put yourself back in the position that you would have been even in fall of 2016 in telling that story, willie. >> so danny, 7 1/2 hours or so of testimony from stormy daniels over a couple of days. truly you just have to stop and consider the surreal, historic nature of it. a porn actress sitting across from a president of the united states making these accusations, and him while he's in the middle of a presidential campaign by the way, but from your point of view, from where you are sitting, at the end of the day, what kind of witness was stormy daniels for the prosecution? >> unnecessary. stormy daniels in my view represents an unnecessary risk for the prosecution. here's why. i can't think of any piece of

evidence that they got from stormy daniels on the prosecution that they couldn't have gotten or didn't already get from other witnesses. the transaction from cohen to daniels was established through other witnesses including keith davidson, her former lawyer. to the extent that the value of her story increased, we've heard that from other witnesses. you say, stormy daniels was about context, and that's true, but when you think about all the other witnesses, madeleine westerhout, and that impeachability, if you can get that evidence from them, why risk stormy daniels? you saw in stormy daniels, a request for a mistrial, which was going to be ddenied, but in my view, the first appealable issue that you might see at the appellate division. if this case comes back in two years, and it's overturned, the conviction, the prosecution will ask themselves, was it worth the

risk if the reason was testimony that was given by stormy daniels, especially if they could have gotten that information from somewhere else? look. i'll say i'm in the minority. i don't think stormy daniels performed particularly well. >> yeah. >> on cross-examination. witnesses, she's one of those witnesses that just decided, i am not going to give a yes or no answer because i know that's what the cross-examining attorney wants. she fought back at every turn. did she zing donald trump and the cross-examining attorneys? yes, but at the same time, witnesses who refuse to answer yes or no, refuse to give an answer, sometimes juries see them as concealing things, and that's what stormy daniels did. it may have played well with the jury. it might not have as well. >> danny, just -- okay. so i want to just try to push back on this because i'm curious what you think of the fact that it would be obvious that the defense would try and undermine her credibility, really try and, you know, put a frame around the

incredulousness of her story, and who else would have the information like what was in his toiletry kit or other things that would prove that there was a transaction for sex? i mean, how else would they do that? are you saying there was a different route they could take? because she's the one with that information that ultimately makes that connection. >> no. we're actually mostly on the same page. i mean, the point to be made is that the testimony could have simply been, we had sex, and i've heard that argument. it's a fair argument that all those details are important to establish that this happened, and judge merchan did point out that in their opening, the defense said they didn't have to say this. they said there was no sex. so arguably they opened the door to those details, but again -- >> mm-hmm. >> -- the proof is really in the fact that this is the first request for a mistrial, and the point, judge merchan himself said, we got into detail we didn't need to get into, but the

defense wasn't objecting so i don't know what's going on there. it's not even really me. it's judge merchan himself expressed doubt. it's rare for a judge to say, some of that testimony, it wasn't so -- it went a little too far. so if judge merchan is saying that, they have it now on the record, and you better believe when they take it to the appellate division, they'll take that little portion to the transcript and put it right in front of the judges and make their argument. so again, i go back to the fact that, yes. you can say that the detail helped with the context. yes, he used old spice and he had the satin pajamas, and that helps show she's credible, but the defense pointed out this is not a sexual assault case. this is a false entries and business records, and then maybe some other crime we're not entirely sure what it is that was being concealed yet. i'm sure we'll find out at some point, but it's not a sex assault case, and that's the defense's argument, and even justice merchan acknowledged that they may have a point. not enough for a mistrial, but there's a point to be made.

>> the judge rejected their request for a mistrial, and their efforts to loosen the gag order, that he could go after stormy daniels because she's no longer a witness. he said, that could be a chilling effect for other witnesses so he kept it in place. do you agree that stormy daniels was an unnecessary risk? tell us if you think they should have called her or not, and tell us about madeleine westerhout. >> i do agree with danny that she was an unnecessary witness. that having been said, when you think about this case writ large, there are two points. there is the falsification of business records, and there is the underlying crime that donald trump is allegedly trying to conceal, and the prosecution made clear at this point that's a conspiracy to promote his own election through unlawful means. on the back end, the evidence of trump's own involvement is less direct than it is on the front end. you've got a lot of people talking about his involvement in the conspiracy.

very few who can talk about his direct participation and the coverup. michael cohen being the only one who will say that. >> you have to compensate by showing he had a motive to do it, and that plus the circumstantial evidence to take you over the line. i would guess what the prosecution is trying to do with stormy daniels here is show because her story was so credible, because she remembers all these messy details, he absolutely had the motive to work with michael cohen and david pecker to ensure her story never saw the light of day and thereafter, cover that up through the business records falsification that we've seen the direct evidence of. in terms of madeleine westerhout, she was in many respects, a mixed bag because she was a terrific character witness for donald trump, a man she really loves and to whom she feels a great amount of gratitude. she could not have been more

efusive in her praise for him, but she's the person who at the white house presented him with the checks to sign. she said he read everything before he signed it and then she was presented with some evidence showing how careful trump was about his money, including an email about whether or not donald trump wanted to buy a $650 tiffany frame to put a picture of his mother in to sit in the oval office. they said, you should ask him if he wants to buy this. this is kind of pricey. this is a person who was micromanagerial, and tight-fisted and the fact he signed nine checks for $35,000, this is a man who knew what he was doing and wanted to do it. >> so stormy daniels, a mixed bag as to what the prosecution got out of it. the next big event will be michael cohen. how soon do you predict that he's going to go on the stand and what are the risks and the rewards of having him come and

testify? >> you want to take this one? >> for sure. >> i think at this point, elise, we've seen a lot of the witnesses that we expect. so just inning looking at a countdown list, there aren't that many people left to hear from. i expect we'll hear from michael cohen soon, perhaps as soon as next week. in terms of what they hope to get from him, michael cohen is the one witness who sees this story through from start to finish. from the formation of the conspiracy in august of 2017 to the end of the repayment scheme to the end of 2017. so they need michael cohen to thread it all the together. think about michael cohen as a damaged building around which the d.a. has built a lot of scaffolding in the form of documentary evidence. we've seen text and emails and bank statements and ledger entries. we have seen so much evidence including excerpts from three books that trump wrote to show

his modus operandi, right? attack, attack, attack. never trust anyone. all of those things in trump's own words, devastating. i predict today, or as soon as today we will see what is, i think, the best evidence of all, three tweets from may of 2018 where donald trump essentially confesses to the business records crime by saying, yeah. i repaid michael cohen, and there's nothing wrong with that. that will be devastating in and of itself. that said, michael cohen is the narrator. count on him to come in and almost be like a summary witness. all the things you just heard, i'm going to string together for you. >> so danny, on the other side of this though, what are the problems with michael cohen? >> he has huge problems and i predict that all the pushback you heard from stormy daniels, the inability to answer a question yes or no, and to try to fight on every single leading question, you'll see that doubly with michael cohen. he used to be a lawyer, presumably he understands what leading questions are. he's going to want to fight back. this is his moment in the sun

just like it was for stormy daniels. it was a good opportunity for him to be in the spotlight which he enjoys. so i expect that he is going to fight tooth and nail on cross-examination which by the way, doesn't always work. when you fight with a cross-examining attorney, maybe it's great for headlines. maybe it's, you know, we perceive it outside the courthouse as taking a swing at the defense, but in court, it doesn't always play that well. in terms of timing, i actually think we'll see michael cohen sooner rather than later. the prosecution has done it very well. this moved very quickly, and when you're a defense counsel, that is disorienting, especially when you don't have a solid witness list or you don't know what's next. it can throw you off. the prosecution moves quickly enough, and you can be left saying, i wasn't ready. i didn't ask all the questions i wanted to ask. i wasn't ready for that witness, and it can turn and create chaos at the defense table.

i don't know if it's intentional, but it feels that way by being efficient. you keep the defense on their heels, and i think that may be what's going on here. >> yeah. i'll just say as a watcher, it was disorienting. it was, like, wow. wow. look -- they just keep bringing him in. so lisa, i'll ask you this and i'm wondering if it backs up danny's point about stormstormy. there was word yesterday that karen mcdougal would not be brought to the stand. is that related at all to stormy's very -- >> no. i'll tell you why. >> let's talk about the speed of this trial. >> the reason karen mcdougal isn't coming in is she really is unnecessary. she's part of the conspiracy, but when we're talking about the falsification of business records, the karen mcdougal payment has nothing to do with that. the falsification is the repayment to michael cohen for the stormy daniels settlement and then some. she was paid by american media. there's nothing she has to do with that back half of the case

that forms the crime. >> all right. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin and msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. still ahead in one minute, president biden is facing criticism from republicans and now some democrats after warning israel that the u.s. won't supply weapons that could be used for an assault on rafah. we'll have the very latest from capitol hill. a lot going on today. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in 60 seconds. g "mor" we're back in 60 seconds - it's apparent. not me. - yeah. nice going lou! nothing like a little confidence boost to help ease you back in to the dating scene. that includes having a smile you feel good about.

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republican lawmakers are criticizing president biden's threat to withhold weapons shipments to israel. in an interview on cnn wednesday, the president said he would not give the idf bombs and artillery shells if israel invades rafah. the southern gaza city where more than a million people have sought refuge. now some house republicans are trying to prevent any delays in arms shipments. one texas congresswoman introduced a bill that would force the white house to deliver any aid passed by congress. another house lawmaker is preparing articles of impeachment against biden charging the president with abuse of power. meanwhile in the upper chamber, senate republicans voiced their frustration saying the president's decision to delay arms to israel undercuts the $95 billion foreign aid package

congress approved last month. >> i fought for months to secure passage of the national security supplemental to support israel, ukraine, and our asian partners and to make important investments in our own military. i stood up to the opposition in my own party to do the right thing. if the commander in chief can't muster the political courage to stand up to the radicals on his left and stand up for an ally at war, the consequences will be grave. >> this is insane what is being suggested by this administration. after the congress in huge bipartisan fashion supported over $14 billion to go to aid israel, this administration will decide unilaterally without any input from anyone else, they don't like the way israel is

defending itself that somehow they start cutting off the various assistance that congress said we want sent to israel to our ally to make sure they're able to defend themselves and to root out this terrorist organization operating on their border. >> what you are doing is you're saying hamas has put palestinians in the crosshairs of israel so stand israel down? that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard in my freaking life is that you tell the person who's about to be wiped off the map you've got to slow down because your enemy is making it hard on the palestinian people to survive because they choose to put them in harm's way. that is ass backwards. >> joining us now, capitol hill correspondent julie serk. we'll debate the merits of policy from president biden, but these are the republicans who held up aid to israel and

ukraine for months and months and months before finally getting to that $14 billion number last month. let's talk about how this is playing on capitol hill because it's actually not just republicans opposed to this idea. we're hearing from some democrats, senator john fetterman, richie torres, the congressman from new york who's pro-israel blasting this as well. >> i've heard from jewish democrats who have told me privately yesterday that they are appalled by biden's decision to review these weapons, but you're also hearing from democrats like senator tim kaine, others who have been urging restraint on israel's part, very careful to underscore that the biden administration is, quote, reviewing the weapons transfer, not necessarily stopping it or halting it. they say this language is important. of course, though, biden's comments speak for themselves. that press conference you played a little bit a part of from senator lindsey graham, senator cotton, senator cotton by the way, saying this impeachment for biden trying to say that because

democrats wanted to impeach former president trump wanted to try him on that because of his conversation -- his phone call with ukraine's president back then for his re-election efforts. they say that this warrants impeachment for biden too trying to draw a parallel there, but this also comes down to the report that we are all anxiously awaiting that congress is await. i talked to sources who say they can potentially expect that report from blinken, the secretary of state today. remember, that is a clause that biden himself had pushed for a couple of months ago at the behest of democrats who wanted him to do so for israel to vow they are abiing by international law, humanitarian law, to preserve as many lives as possible in order to get american weapons. this is a report congress is waiting on potentially today. we'll see what's inside there, but certainly this is a moment for biden as he tries to toe the line between supporting israel, between trying to appease his base and many who have been demonstrating on college campuses across the country the

last few weeks, and this has become a partisan, political issue that hostage families have told me when i talked to them a couple of weeks ago, is not helpful, willie. >> and jonathan lemire, this hasn't changed prime minister netanyahu's view of things. he said yesterday, we hope we can resolve our differences with president biden, but even if we don't, we're going ahead even if we are alone. we'll say one more time here that those republicans you heard railing yesterday, that foreign aid package that was supposed to give money to israel and ukraine, much needed over many months was held up because they wanted to see action on the u.s. border first. that legislation of course, had been taken care of in the senate, but they turned their back on it there. that bipartisan legislation, but let's talk about the white house you cover every day, and president biden. what kind of a pickle he is in here trying as julie said to appease a progressive base who supports gaza and doesn't like the way israel's prosecuting this war, and maintaining this relationship with israel. >> yeah. a few things, willie. first of all, it's a bad faith

comparison, what republicans are doing, saying this is akin to what donald trump did to extort zelenskyy to have an investigation to withhold arms. the u.s. continues to send weapons to israel, defensive weapons. they're saying we're not going to give you things for this particular operation in rafah. we also -- i have some new reporting on this. the administration, this was not a spur of the moment decision. this was not a senior moment as speaker johnson put it. this is a move after telling israel, we don't want you to have an all-out invasion of rafah. on "way too early," this was called disappointing and we hope president biden will change his mind, but he's not going to. john kirby said yesterday he thinks that an all-out invasion of rafah would help hamas'

standing. >> stay with us. look at kevin mccarthy taking a dig at speaker johnson after relying on democrats to save his job. that is straight ahead on "morning joe." ve his job that is straight ahead on "morning joe." on medicare? have diabetes? when enjoying life's special moments are you left guessing which foods are right for you? with the freestyle libre 3 system you'll know your glucose and where it's headed no fingersticks needed. freestyle libre 3 manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. so you can focus on those special moments. covered by medicare for more people managing diabetes with insulin. talk to your provider or visit freestylelibre.us/medicare

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former house speaker kevin mccarthy is criticizing his says successor, mike johnson after democrats saved him from being ousted from his speakership. take look at what he said on politico's podcast yesterday. >> i couldn't live myself if i had to deal with the democrats. if you can't sustain being speaker by your own majority, should you sustain it? my question, no. so either i'm going to win speaker and be the leader with the majority. otherwise, it's not right to be the speaker. >> wow. there's so much there, julie. i keep thinking of the story

that they did on mike johnson where the sub headline is could he actually be good at this job or something like that? i mean, he is working on a bipartisan level in some cases, and in many ways, pushing the extreme into the corner a little bit so that he cannot only keep his job, but get something done on capitol hill. what am i missing? >> you're missing absolutely nothing, mika. in fact, back in february, even january, if you told anyone, republicans, democrats on capitol hill that mike johnson would be able to fund the government, to send aid to ukraine, to do everything he has on a bipartisan basis in the last couple of months, without the border and still keep his job, i don't think anyone would have believed you, and more than that, mccarthy's comments i find kind of rich because when he was going through this, when he was ousted, he wanted democrats to at least feel present to at least save him in some manner.

he tried to have him do that, and he said after the fact that he was appalled that nancy pelosi for example, turned her back, that she promised him back in january of 2023 that democrats would help him out if these conservative hardliners moved to oust him. so he wanted exactly what mike johnson got. he just didn't get it because in my conversations with democrats, they didn't trust mccarthy like they trust johnson. they say, johnson is somebody they have been able to work with, they have been able to hammer out certain differences with. certainly there are a lot of differences. there's no doubt about it, but they definitely didn't trust mccarthy and see him in the same light as they see johnson, and so i think that is a very important distinction obviously. mccarthy is out of the speakership. he's out of congress, but he might still have some bad blood for the eight who ousted him and the democrats who didn't help him out at all. >> absolutely. nbc's julie, and thank you so much for your reporting and insight this morning. we appreciate it. and coming up, russia fires

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russia unleashed a massive wave of missile and drone attacks across ukraine on wednesday targeting the country's energy infrastructure in a bid to knock out electricity in several cities. the institute for the study of war, a washington-based think tank says this is the fifth time in less than two months russia has launched a wide-scale attack targeting ukraine's power grid. joining us now from ukraine is a journalist, a former defense and security reporter at the kyiv post and a co-founder of the key independent. he has covered the war in ukraine since its beginning, and is the author of the new book out now titled "i will show you

how it was: the story of wartime kyiv." thank you so much for being with us this morning. we appreciate it. something in your book really stood out and struck me where you said ukraine has been fundamentally changed over the last decade, but particularly over the last couple of years of this full-scale invasion of russia. the civilian casualties we've seen just even in the last couple of days, again, attacking the energy infrastructure in major ukrainian cities. how do you describe that change you've seen in yourself perhaps, and in the people of ukraine? >> it is absolutely true and i keep telling this anywhere i go, that ukraine from let's say 2014 and ukraine right now, or ukraine from 2019 and ukraine right now, it's now '24, absolutely different countries. in so many regards cultcultural we have become a nation of our

own which is very simple from a cultural field of russia for instance. it's a nation that in which people from east or from the west finally have a big story of the legacy, and it truly unites them. it's not that we are that different in the west, but right now our generation has this big story of war, of common struggle, of a common loss, of something that unites us for the sake of saving our common hope. ukraine is absolutely different in terms of its political life. it's absolutely different from what it used to be like that copy of russia in terms of an unfree political system, a lack of free speech, the lack of initiative from the society. i'm not saying the ukrainian

system is ideal now, but at the same time, there has been understanding and sentiment of ukrainian people taking its destiny in its hands and dictating and dictating authorities, taking charge of many things that happen in ukraine, opposing negative tendenies in this country, corruption, abuse of power, illegal activities in this country. so this is so different, but the biggest difference is of course, this sense of unity, and sense of becoming a nation, a nation that wants to be independent, that appreciates to be independent, that has produced a lot of cultural civilizational things for its own. that is exclusively ukrainian, so in many ways we are -- we have become the nation in so many aspects.

i mean, especially this great loss, this great grief of a full-scale russian invasion is of course, uniting. ukrainians don't allow this, and they are a nation as unique as never before. >> yep. the new book is titled "i will show you how it was: the story of wartime kyiv." thank you so much. coming up next, donald trump spending a lot of time in a new york city courthouse this week. he's back there again this morning as prosecutors press their criminal case against the former president. a preview of what to expect in today's proceedings just ahead on "morning joe." so this is pickleball? it's basically tennis for babies, but for adults. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! ♪♪ these guys are intense. we got nothing to worry about. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement.

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he moved the culture forward. >> we did it, joe. >> i do know one thing, is that when black twitter showed up, it was at the most important time. >> we can keke all we want, but when you're black, you can't

avoid the realities of this world. ♪♪ >> it's way bigger than just fun and jokes. [ chanting ] >> you used it to create change intentionally. >> welcome back to "morning joe," and that is part of the trailer from the new hulu docuseries titled "black twitter: a people's history." the series shows the change from black twitter from memes that have gone viral to social justice movements it has sparked around the world to the purchase of twitter by billionaire elon musk and what black twitter now looks like on the x platform. joining us now, the director and executive producer the directord executive producer of the series prentiss penny. also elise jordan still with us. congratulations on the series.

>> thank you. >> how would you define black twitter? >> i would define black twitter as anywhere where black culture gets to be unapologetically itself. that happened on the platform in a big way. >> when did it sort of begin, in your estimation, and what was its heyday? >> i think we were all siloed in these individual communities. it really was when you know you're black when was a hashtag. that blew up across the timeline. you know you're black when you don't go outside when it's raining. everybody hopped on that thread. that was the big bang of black twitter. >> certainly a cultural phenomenon? >> i was hoping you could talk a little bit about when and how it shifted from a cultural space where black people from different parts of the world could talk to one another and

have this fun space and a uniquely black space into something that actually fuelled cultural and political movements in some ways and also elevated local stories like george floyd. >> yeah. i think we were all on the platform sort of having fun times with memes and participating in live tweeting with "scandal" and things like that. it really was trayvon that took black twitter into a more mature direction and realize, yes, we can have fun here, but we can also use this platform as a place for activism. that really happened with trayvon. >> could you talk about how one finds black twitter? i've often laughed to myself. sometimes i'll be on twitter and well-meaning people who are not black will say, please, where can i find black twitter? i laughed to myself and say you've just got to follow more

black people. >> that was the difference between facebook and twitter. facebook was a place you found friends or family members, where twitter was a place to find strangers and people who didn't see the world like you necessarily. you sort of have to hot in conversations and see who's following this person, who's following that person. it's not a physical place, but if you follow the right people, it will lead you there. >> more of a spiritual vibe. >> this was based on a "wired" article post 2022 so you don't cover elon musk x specifically. what was january 6th to the black twitter community? to you, it was a unique moment that it had been waiting for. >> yeah. we joke in the doc that it was sort of the perfect storm of what black twitter has been preparing for, which is getting really good with memes, calling out hypocrisy and coming together and white foolishness blending into one.

it was a space to call out the hypocrisy that had just happened previously where the previous president was sort of saying respect blue lives matter and respect the law of government even when trump was sort of bombing that church town square and calling the guard out for that and then saying, hey, but what's happening now? black twitter was really good at calling out the hypocrisy of what we had just seen a few months prior. >> the covid pandemic sort of isolated. that must have led to more energy on twitter too. >> yes. >> tell us more about that and about the docu-series. >> we're all siloed in our own homes. it was a way that black twitter sort of refound community in a certain way and having fun on the platform, live tweeting about "the last dance" or "tiger king." sharing resources is another

thing black twitter does well, giving information out to the community. we have a wide array of people from roxanne gay, w. kamau bell. black twitter is just made of everyday people. keshawn thompson is the first person to tweet black girl magic. i'm excited people get to see the birth of all these things that we sort of take for granted now. >> how do you think black twitter has changed since elon musk took over and now it's x? >> there's definitely an exodus of black twitter on the platform, but we're still there pretty large in numbers. black culture is always having to sort of move around in america. a lot of us are like, we helped

make this place and we're not going to leave. even this past weekend with the kendrick and drake stuff, black twitter was very much alive on the platform. >> all three episodes of the docu-series "black twitter, a people's history" are streaming now on hulu. thank you so much for being on. >> thank you. >> congratulations. >> appreciate it. up next on "morning joe," we'll have the latest from donald trump's hush-money trial, including when michael cohen will take the stand. we now know the day. plus, a rare misstep by apple, who is apologizing after its latest ipad commercial. and is robert f. kennedy's running mate the most dangerous woman in america? we'll explore that piece from "the daily beast."

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it is the top of the fourth hour of "morning joe." 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. we take a live look at los angeles. jonathan lemire, elise jordan and mara gay also with us. nbc news has learned through multiple sources that michael cohen will begin his testimony in donald trump's hush-money trial on monday. trump's former lawyer is expected to be on the stand for several days. yesterday adult film star stormy daniels finished testifying. the former president's attorneys called her credibility into question during a contentious cross examination. laura jarrett has the details. >> reporter: the third week of donald trump's criminal trial ending with a dramatic confrontation as his defense team wrapped up a combative two-day cross examination of

stormy daniels over a decades-old story of an alleged sexual encounter between the adult film star and the then-reality tv star trump, who says it never happened. prosecutors have accused the former president of buying her silence to deceive voters in 2016 and doctoring internal business records to cover it all up once in the white house. defense attorney susan necklace highlighting her shifting details from that story in 2006 to insinuate she's a liar, saying, quote, her experience in the film industry gave her a lot of experience in making phony stories about sex appearing to be real. daniels responding, wow, that's not how i would put it. the sex in the films is real, just like what happened to me in

that room. mr. trump's former fixer michael cohen made a $130,000 payment to daniels days before the election. the defense tried to cast daniels as simply hungry for money and fame and determined to help put mr. trump behind bars because it would help her bottom line, pointing to past tweets mocking his legal woes and her current catalog of merge including a $40 candle depicting her as stormy saint of indictment. you're selling things from your store? daniels shooting back, not unlike mr. trump. >> what a week in court. jonathan lemire, author of "the big lie" now out in paperback. what can we expect out of

michael cohen's testimony? also, i wonder if the defense will go after him credibility-wise just as they did stormy daniels. >> that's a safe bet. michael cohen is the blockbuster witness of this trial. stormy daniels certainly brought some sizzle, but perhaps her testimony in some ways unnecessary, some of the drier stuff by the accountants and other trump aides far more important. cohen is at the nexus of this scheme. his testimony is going to be hugely important, and perhaps unlike stormy daniels', necessary. but he has significant credibility issues. we all know that. he lied to congress. he went to prison. he is someone who the defense will argue has a real ax to grind against donald trump. cohen was trump's loyal right-hand man, his fixer. count me as one of hundreds of reporters who used to get

threatening phone calls when reporting negatively about donald trump. michael cohen is a figure in new york city. everyone sort of knows him. he's really key here. he could either make the prosecution case or he could undermine it. what do you expect? >> this is the magic of where courtroom trials and prosecutors and defense lawyers is really going to come to life. what the jury sees here is either going to be someone who is not credible, who has an ax to grind with the former president, or it's going to be someone who was closer to trump than almost anyone, in close proximity to these alleged crimes. he saw it all. that is where the skill set of these prosecutors is going to come to life. we're going to see the two men face off in court. that's going to be awkward as

well. it's a question of what each juror is going to see. it's kind of uncontrollable after a certain point. this is why we can't predict what's going to happen, because this jury is going to get two different stories. the one thing is that michael cohen since denouncing trump has been fairly consistent. so i think that the former president also has a lot of credibility issues. let's not forget that. it's not exactly, you know, the most credible defendant. >> it's interesting. in the next hour we're going to have vaughn hillyard and charles coleman joining us as testimony continues. we want to now turn to the political impact of this. let's bring in former ohio governor and 2016 presidential

candidate john kasich. he's an nbc political analyst. joanna coles from "the daily beast" is with us. also with us is cohost of msnbc's "the weekend" symone sanders townsend, also cohost of "morning mika." i brought you back on the rails this week. i think i got you a little worried with chickens last week. >> people need to watch the chicken episode. >> it was about dead dogs and live chickens. this weekend all about jen psaki's amazing new book "say more." let's dive in. john kasich, great to have you back on the show and see you again. i'm curious what your thoughts are watching trump's trial play out. some people on the democratic

side say it would be better to have him out there saying crazy things at his rallies. i disagree. where do you come down on this? >> well, i don't think this trial is having much impact, mika. i don't think people are paying that much attention to it. i thought it was very interesting to read peggy noonan today and what she said about how the race is coming down to things are pretty well set. it all gets down to economics. i don't think this is going to have that much of an impact at all. i think what it's going to get down to is how do people feel about their situation today, how they feel about the future. so it's always the pocketbook. so i don't think this trial is going to take away from that thundering effort to decide how people feel about the economy. the biden people are going to have to start making a case that things were not so great under

trump. they've got a big challenge going forward. they can't just count on trump's mistakes to be able to win this election. >> right. it's amaing how desensitized people are to all the stuff that either donald trump has done or is accused of doing or admits to doing. joanna, this would be blockbuster tv any other time in politics, but it's like people are like, whatever. i'm watching. i'm kind of riveted. what do you think down the road this will mean for the election, as opposed to just the drama of it? >> actually, i would say that we have seen a spike in our readership at the beast over the trial. i agree with john kasich that people sort of got anesthetized

to the drama, but this is really like the sort of ninth season of his reality show. for those us of us to remember "dallas" michael cohen is a little bit like digger barnes coming back as this character that pops up and causes great drama. >> symone sanders, we've been watching the trial. this week was salacious, to say the at least. in fact, so salacious that some think the prosecution misstepped. others don't. we shall see. impact on trump's campaign in a big way or remains to be seen? >> i think we are literally witnessing the effects of the trial on donald trump's campaign in two very important ways. we've talked about how he looks

diminished under that florescent lighting. he is sitting in front of a jury in a small courtroom in lower manhattan. he looks small. he does not look presidential. the second way this is affecting his campaign, i believe, is his inability to fund raise and campaign. joe biden is on the west coast doing a lot of campaign events and fundraisers. the money is how you pay for ads. donald trump is not able to do that, because he is sitting in a courtroom. i think the money issues that the trump campaign has should not be underestimated. donald trump is not having these huge rallies, in small part because the cost of a rally is anywhere between $15,000 and $20,000 per event.

they do not have that, which is why they're in airport hangars with no backdrop for free. >> john kasich, it is true, the biden campaign is making money and doing events and getting out there. there's also this nikki haley angle. nbc has confirmed a "wall street journal" report that former presidential candidate nikki haley is making her slow return to public life after dropping out of the republican primary race in march. haley is expected to attend a political retreat in south carolina this week to thank her biggest donors. she is not expected to discuss her political future or endorse other campaigns. she did not speak to donald trump after she withdrew from the republican primary, and the two have not spoken since. this comes as haley continues

despite already suspending her campaign. back in april, she won more than 16% of the vote in pennsylvania and 13% in alabama's primary, which could be a warning sign, i think, for the trump campaign, who claimed they're not concerned about haley's supporters and trying to gain them. what do you think about the nikki haley factor and the fact that biden has the ability to actually campaign? >> well, first of all, there are non-trumpers out there. the question is, in a polarized country, are they willing to cross over and vote for joe biden? yet to be determined. i break this down in three ways. the economy. the biden people say the economy is great. most people across the country say inflation is killing me. it costs me more if i'm a small

business person. i have to pay more wages. my equipment costs more. interest rates are going up. normal folks out there shopping go to the grocery store, everything costs more. people say, when donald trump was in, things were better. if you look at the inflation rate, it frankly was better. on the economic side, biden keeps saying bidenomics works. people across the country are saying no, it's not working. the second issue is the issue of wars. i hear people saying, you know what, we didn't have wars when donald trump was president. you've got to listen to people. you can't just fight with them. you have to hear what they say. thirdly is the issue of strength. joe biden doesn't look strong. so people look at that and say, is that the person i want to have for president? they look at trump and go, well,

he ain't my cup of tea either, but at least he has confidence and exudes all that. that's what the biden people have to focus on. to me, for them to win, they're going to have to break this down. they're going to have to remind hispanics about the things donald trump said. they're going to have to do a better job of talking about the economics, because it ultimately gets down to that. that's why right now, because of all that, joe biden is trailing in these critical states that are going to make the difference in this election. don't count on fumbles. you've got to get out there and do stuff. it's a big challenge. >> i think the governor touts a very interesting three. i think campaigns have a decision to make less than six months out. you can spend your time trying to convince voters that what they feel is wrong and that you are actually correct, or you can

meet them where they are and earn their vote. i think for a while the biden campaign was leaning too much on the former, but i think they have decidedly pursued the latter. you've seen the vice president out on this economic opportunity tour, not just talking about what the administration has done, but what they will do to address affordable housing, homeownership. while we may not discuss it here in the beltway, i do think out in the states people are hearing a little bit more. there are some key contrasts. so when the governor says folks out there say joe biden doesn't look strong, what does that mean? i think having a conversation with voters is going to make a difference. i don't put a lot of stock in these battleground polls that haven't happened yet. you have to look at what is actually happening on the ground, what people are saying when they are meeting these elected officials and administration officials and

surrogates. they are liking what they are hearing. they're like, okay, they want to see a vision for the future. what is donald trump's vision? retribution and to be a dictator on day one. what is record gdp and affordable housing when the man is a doggone dictator? donald trump is telling us what he is going to do, and it is scary. >> i agree with you. i would add reproductive freedom and rights and the ability for doctors to treat women when they are severely ill is one of the bottom lines of this campaign. the biden campaign certainly is leaning into that, because donald trump has done tremendous damage to women's health in america, not an understatement, absolute fact. if you want health care in certain states and you need anything that looks anything like an abortion, you got a

problem and you're on your own and you can bleed out. that's what he's done for american women. >> i want to get to joanna's piece about the most dangerous woman in america. first, governor, what do you make of sununu and bill barr? they're against donald trump. they talk about it so articulately, and then they just turn. you have the former lieutenant governor of georgia able to step up and have a conviction about donald trump being a danger to america. but these guys, former attorney general and sununu was out there for nikki haley and he was aggressively against donald trump for real, legitimate reasons. what is this? what's wrong with these people? how do you explain this?

>> i think sununu is trying to preserve his future in the republican party. when i didn't endorse trump and when i endorsed joe biden, that was the end of my political career in the republican party, at least at that moment in time. they are looking now as to how they can be viable. why bill barr is doing it, i have no idea. when you're out, you look in the mirror and think about what you did when you were in. conscience has to play a big role in terms of how people feel. we have seen people put their careers on the line. you've seen what's happened with liz cheney. but she holds her head high. it's a mystery to me. when i talk about the campaign, i'm not in the beltway. i'm in ohio in the middle of the country. i don't say these things because i'm one way or the other.

i'm like an umpire calling signals. the biden folks are going to have to get stronger and they're going to have to wake up. i'm telling you they've got a ways to go. in june, voters are going to look at how the economy is and they'll take another look in september. that is going to determine this election. we'll see. always good to see you. >> come back a lot. former ohio governor john kasich, thank you very much. great to have you. while much has been made of the effect robert kennedy jr. could play in the november election, voters know relatively little about his running mate. a new article in "the daily beast" asks is nicole shanahan the most dangerous woman in america and gives new details.

joanna, what makes her potentially very dangerous and dangerous to who? >> great question, mika. noah kirsch and his team at the beast have put together a truly fascinating piece about this woman who is literally the most intriguing woman in america and the most consequential. she is armed with a lot of cash from her divorce from a cofounder of google. she is supporting robert kennedy jr. and the casual details say actually it was her boyfriend when they were having a dinner with robert and his wife cheryl hines said why don't you think about nicole to be your deputy? nicole describes a moment when the two of them swing in their chairs and fix on her and say would you be interested?

of course, she's got a stash of cash from sergei. she's got a fascinating history of relationships. what the team found when they talked to dozens of people who'd worked with her and knew her were of two camps. one camp says she's an extraordinary american story, that she comes from a very humble background. she went to college, she became an ip lawyer and she's very diligent. on the other, you get people saying that she knows very little about ai, which is what robert kennedy jr. said he'd chosen her for. there's a quote from someone who says, actually, nicole doesn't know the difference between ai and a tennis ball. and also much debate about whether she is the expert that robert kennedy jr. has suggested she is in chronic illnesses,

which is one of the reasons he said he's chosen her. she shares his more eccentric theories about electromagnetic pollution as being the cause of many diseases. there's no question she is really consequential. at the moment they're polling around 10%. they could tip the election. it's unclear for whom at this point. there's no question that she financed robert kennedy jr.'s super bowl ad with $4 million. she put $2 million into the campaign last month. actually, a lot of the campaign staff are also intrigued by her, because she has yet to actually turn up to an in-person campaign event. so big question mark over who exactly is she. i think this piece gets to the heart of it. >> why is she doing this? she can, because she has the money. has she ever shown any interest in policy or politics before she

accepted this vice presidential slot? >> great question. she was according to her friends and those who have worked with her traditionally very liberal. she was extremely upset when hillary clinton wasn't elected. so people see this as the next stage in what has been a phenomenal rise from a really very modest background. her mom was a chinese immigrant. this is the most extraordinary sort of embodiment of the american dream. i mean, i've lived in this country for 30 years, but i look at this as an american story. i can't see this happening in europe. you would have had to have done some political work. she's created nonprofits with, again, money from her ex-husband sergei bryn. i think she sees this as just the next rung on the ladder of

her life. >> joanna coles, come back soon. thank you very much for being on this morning. >> happy to. >> and symone sanders townsend, thank you as well. we'll watch "the weekend" saturday and sunday mornings beginning at 8:00 a.m. eastern. this week's episode of "morning mika" is chock full of psaki bombs where the former white house press secretary drops hard truths about dealing with the press, politicians and preschoolers. here's part of jen's take on the big issues driving the presidential election. >> i hate to tell people this, but a lot is going to happen over the next six months. i do think the piece that is

underestimated -- and the four of us have talked about this before -- is abortion access and abortion rights. as i've been watching the trial and hearing the reporting on stormy daniels and others, what i keep thinking about is, trump is a man who's trying to prevent women from making choices about their own body and also he's disrespecting literally individual women about their own bodies. when people say that doesn't matter, i just think why are we projecting that onto people? it may matter, and women care about these things. i almost think that is the underestimated issue at this point, but i think it will hinge on a lot. >> the new episode of "morning mika" is live right now on peacock and youtube. check it out. coming up, we'll get a live report from outside the courthouse in lower manhattan, where donald trump's criminal trial is set to resume in just a few moments. plus, a rare misstep by apple, who is apologizing for a

video promoting its latest ipad. we'll show you the ad that's being roundly criticized. that's next on "morning joe." y d that's next on "morning joe. i'm 65. and really smart later i'm 70-ish. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. which makes planning your financial future easier. so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. and set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. right now you can get a free footlong at subway. just buy any footlong in the app and get one free. just scan the qr code and enter promo code flbogo it only works from the other side of the screen, buddy. you still got a land line in your house. order now in the subway app.

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♪♪ it's half past the hour. welcome back, everybody. apple's vice president of marketing has apologized for an ad released this week. brian cheung explains why the company is taking this rare step. >> this morning, an apology from apple. the company saying in a statement it missed the mark after widespread backlash for its ad promoting the latest ipad pro. the ad shows the press crushing symbols of the arts and creativity. ♪♪

♪♪ >> compressing into the new ipad pro. the online backlash bubbling throughout the week, seeing it as a metaphor for what tech companies do to the arts and creators. apple saying, our goal is to celebrate the myriad of ways users express themselves. we missed the mark with this video and we're sorry. apple's early most famous ad celebrated for its symbolism. the iconic 1984 ad directed by

hollywood legend ridley scott launching during the super bowl 40 years ago depicted apple as saving the world from a mechanized dystopian nightmare. >> wow. let's bring in coanchor of "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin. i'm just shook. like, how could they miss the mark on this, andrew? like the problem of the past decade has been that people are hunched over their ipads and their phones and they're not relating and they're not experiencing creating. >> i have to say i was surprised at just how much this missed. i will say the first time i watched it, i understood what they were trying to say. i think they're trying to say we're compressing all these different products and things all into this technology. but it was such an unusual miss for apple, because their

campaigns in the past have celebrated all those things, the ideas they have tried to argue that their technology elevates musicians and creativity in so many different ways. those famous ads with. steve jobs so many years ago where they talked about thinking different and celebrating some of the great thinkers in the world. so to see them do this and to see the backlash, it's a hard one for apple. it's not going to change the outcome of how i think people think about apple. we'll see. >> that was crazy. i found it disturbing. i was waiting to get the point of it. >> the bigger question is within the management structure. tim cook posted it online. i would have thought that tim cook and others around him would

have watched it and said, guys, i understand what you're trying to do here, but i don't think this is totally where we want to be. maybe it speaks to group think. one thing that happens at businesses is you get a lot of people that are similar around the same table and nobody wants to speak up or they all think the same. >> so i want to ask you about the housing market and economic indicators out of it. there are some growing numbers of underwater home mortgages in this country. in this yahoo finance report they say seriously underwater home mortgages are across the u.s. >> it's a real problem. we talked about it a little bit on the show before. you're seeing a lot of homes, often in the south where folks have paid more for the home than the home is worth today. this is getting people nervous,

because there's some elements of 2008 in that, which was to say that back then, if you remember, there were a lot of folks who had underwater homes. the difference this time is more of the mortgages today, even though they may be underwater, in some cases 5 or 10% of homes in these states, the distinction is they are 15 and 30-year mortgages which is different than back in 2008 where you had adjustable rate mortgages where nobody was building any equity in the home. if the adjustable rate mortgage were to change given that they got very low rates and all of a sudden you get a high rate and you can't afford it and you have to sell the home at a loss. if you get enough of that, that can create a spiral effect.

it doesn't appear we're there yet, but it's something definitely we need to keep our eyes on. >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you. have a great weekend. four years ago this month, america was rocked by the murder of george floyd at the hands of minneapolis police officers and, of course, the protests that volumed. >> we got protesters now moving closer and the police continue to fire. >> it sounds like they're chanting "do it" like they're daring the state troopers to fire. >> i got hit. hold on. >> ali joins us now. he's the host of "velshi" on

msnbc. his new book is titled "small acts of courage." you say the book was inspired by an epiphany that you had after that rubber bullet moment. tell us about that. >> i've had this long history in my life that goes back about 125 years where they've emigrated from country to country. they fought apartheid activity in south africa. they sought democracy in the country in which i was born in kenya. then moved to canada and fully embraced democracy. my father got elected to the provincial parliament there. i thought the fight for justice was over. i thought there were really pockets of injustice all over

the place. suddenly i realized people say to you as a journalist you have a front row seat to history. there's no front row. we're all in it together. in the same way we don't like murders or school shootings, we don't like police shooting into innocent crowds of people. we don't like the unfairness some people suffer in this country because of the color of our skin. it is all of our fights. that's when i realized as a journalist, you're not watching it, you're in it. >> that struck me. there is a lot of discussion right now about how to cover donald trump and his campaign. of course, as journalists, we really do value independence and impartiality. at the same time, every human being comes with their own set of experiences and history. how do you weigh that against the need to be an impartial

observer? and what should be the actual role of journalists in this time? >> it did change for me a little bit. i think about you in helsinki with donald trump a few years back where use caused him to say something that became very real and newsworthy. you were bearing witness. that's our number one job, all journalists. we bear witness to something. then we hold power to account doing that. as long as you're doing these two things, you can exist along that continuum. you can just be there to bear witness. i can be there and say this was an entirely peaceful crowd, there was no reason for police to open fire. the next morning we could discuss the context and the fact that these things were actually happening. i think the conversation is we

must be accurate in going out there and telling our viewers what's actually happening. and on a case-by-case basis we determine, are we advocating for something here or are we just bearing witness? >> you covered a lot about the idea of banning books. you talk about the need to debate in a society that is becoming ever more siloed. >> i'm honored to be on your show today. this is a show in which you're always debating stuff. once we decide we're done with that, i don't know what else we do. a lot of corporate america is not interested in something these discussions and debates for obvious reasons. we must. we are there to fight the fire. you can't show up and say the fire is too big, the hoses don't

reach the top of the building. we've got to stick with it and encourage debate. it's okay if some of our viewers grow tired of it. but we will still be there encouraging that debate because that is our job. >> is it important to not be desensitized? we as members of the media can become so desensitized to some of the behavior and language we're seeing out there and actions. but also we're so busy just holding onto trying to establish facts in a land of disinformation that has popped up around us in a way that is so destructive to what you're talking about.

>> the velocity at which the lies come, the human brain can process a certain amount, but there are some people out there, including the former president of the united states, who lies at a velocity that's very hard to check in realtime. people say, oh, that's just him being him, and you end up with things working their way into our national lexicon which are dangerous and horrible and contrary to debate. >> very true. ali velshi, thank you so much for coming on this morning. ali's new book is titled "small acts of courage." it's on sale right now. we'll be watching "velshi" saturday and sunday mornings at 10:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. coming up, we'll go live to lower manhattan for the latest on donald trump's hush-money trial, which resumed moments ago. we'll be right back. moments ago. we'lbel right back.

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live look at the courthouse at 47 past the hour. we're following a major new development this morning as the donald trump hush-money trial criminal trial resumes in new york city. nbc news has learned from multiple sources that former trump attorney michael cohen will be called to testify on monday. he is expected to be on the witness stand for several days. that is expected to be quite dramatic. let's bring in vaughn hillyard, who is live outside the courthouse in lower manhattan. also with us, senior writer for politico, who specialized in financial fraud and white collar

crime. also legal analyst charles coleman. we'll start with you, vaughn. >> reporter: madelyn wester hout continues her testimony. she is facing cross examination from donald trump's attorney susan necheles. she was the just outside the oval office and was able to have eye contact with donald trump at the resolute desk. she testified she had set up meetings with donald trump and michael cohen and a separate meeting between donald trump and david pecker in the white house in 2017, his first month in the white house. but under cross examination, she is facing questions about the extent of her understanding of the context and whether she knew that donald trump had reimbursed intentionally michael cohen for the checks made to stormy

daniels before the 2016 election. of course, the marquee witness for the prosecution will be michael cohen. he could be the culmination of the case they lay out. just a few days ago they suggested they had just about two weeks of witnesses to bring forward. the expectation is michael cohen could be the last one. at that point in time, the defense would be able to call their own witnesses to the stand. of course, then we're looking at this end of this trial after several weeks here in which you've heard from stormy daniels, hope hicks and now soon to be michael cohen. we have he different witnesses. vaughn, stand by, an we've seen a lot this week. we've heard a lot this week, and a lot of it was very salacious

and specific, but in terms of what the former president is accused of, the counts against him, did the prosecution conduct itself in a manner that was effective and complete? >> yeah, it's an excellent question, and i understand, you know, obviously the central component of the charges here concern the falsification of the records, but i think that they did what they needed to do this week. i know there's been a debate about whether they should have called stormy daniels and whether it went on too long. here's the problem with the critics, candidly, donald trump has denied this story for years, that he and stormy daniels had sex. that is the start of this story. donald trump's lawyer repeated that denial in the opening statements. if you're the prosecutors and you're the jurors and you believe stormy daniels' prosecutors have established that a central component of donald trump's story is a lie. there's all this like cross

examination, sort of nitpicking. the jurors only have to believe that she had sex with donald trump. they don't have to ware whether she changed her story here or there over time, whether she wants to make money. all the detail -- >> proves it -- >> excuse me? >> the detail helps provide that proof, doesn't it? >> yes, that is exactly what i was going to say. when you're talking about a story where only two people are in the room and one of the people is apparently lying about what happened, then of course the other person has to provide as much detail as possible. that's how we establish their credibility. in real life that's how we decide whether we believe someone's story. i think the prosecutors really had no choice after todd blanche denied that this encounter happened in his opening statement. >> so charles, give us your sense as to what's going to happen today, more important groundwork, maybe not boldfaced names.

madeline wester haus is a key figure in trump's west wing. >> jonathan, everything since we've heard from david pecker has been about dots and michael cohen is going to be the person who is used to connect the dots by the prosecution. each and every witness that the prosecution has called has given you a piece, a framework, if you will, to fill in what david pecker began when he took the stand first as their witness, and every piece of information that each person has offered is painting a larger picture. the one thing that the prosecution has not done yet successfully is actually tie donald trump into everything that has happened. it's happened more and more and more, but michael cohen is the linchpin. he is the witness that is going to provide the information that actually connects the dots and puts donald trump at the center of this case, and i think that's why it's going to take so long because they're going to take each of the accounts that the witnesses gave, and they're going to get corroborated testimony from michael cohen to

actually tie donald trump in, which is what they have to do to get a conviction. >> i wanted to know, charms, sometimes from the outside we're not in that courtroom, things it can get a little complicated. >> yes. >> and then we had stormy daniels' testimony that could be seen as a distraction. and it's quite salacious. i'm wondering if you think that as an attorney, that the jury may see it that way or if what they are seeing is kind of a straight through line. how tightly -- how tight is this story that the prosecution is weaving? >> i think that the jury is absolutely not seeing this as a straight line right now, and i think that it's the job of the prosecution upon summation to make it as clear and straightforward as possible. when i say that they're not seeing it as a straight line, please understand that's by design from the defense in many respects. part of why it's gotten so salacious is because the defense in this case does not have strong facts, and they know that, and because they don't have strong facts to work with, the alternative strategy is

we'll just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. if we can confuse this jury, then perhaps we get one juror who says i don't really know if this makes sense to me, and i don't know if i want to buy it, and so i'm not going to convict. >> so there is an attempt to confuse the jury. >> without question. >> in our final 60 seconds in the show, let's go back live to the courthouse. vaughn, what are we expecting today? >> reporter: we expect several more witnesses to come forward. these are the folks that could potentially also be those, you know, when we're talking about the recordkeeping and the chain of custody, of the checks. individuals that can help round out the needed testimony for the prosecution. again, it all comes down to michael cohen next week as being the linchpin that brings it all together here. but this was, you know, for stormy daniels' testimony, ahead of someone like madeleine westerhout who was inside the white house, you have two very different characters. one who said she affirmed that,

yes, she hates donald trump u and another here inside this courthouse right now who is saying she has respect for donald trump and even went on to write a book affirming that respect and appreciation for donald trump. so what this jury is seeing in terms of witnesses brought by the prosecution is a full scope of not just, you know, individuals that hate donald trump, but also those that worked so closely with him, including the likes of jeffrey mcconney. great point to end the show on. former federal prosecutor, an curb ka door ree, and charms charles coleman, thank you very much. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a short break. have a great weekend. coverage after a short break have a great weekend

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