today on getting answers in vitro fertilization treatments for the sake of selecting your baby's sex. it is illegal in most of the world, but it's an increasingly popular trend in

america and california. having your house painted is already a costly endeavor. now imagine if your house is a victorian. you won't believe the cost and the special effort that goes into the job. but first, the maker of chatgpt takes on a new frontier in ai use. you're watching. getting answers. i'm kristen sze. thanks for joining us. you've seen what ai can do in terms of creating videos so compelling that you'd believe it was real. a few years ago, this deep fake video of former house speaker nancy pelosi went viral. the video makes it look like she's drunk and slurring her words. now imagine doing that. but with sexually explicit content. that's something the maker of chatgpt, openai, is trying to tackle. joining us live now to discuss this, tiffany lee associate professor, law professor at the university of san francisco, who has studied deepfakes extensively. professor lee, thanks for joining us. thanks for having me

. using ai tools to create nudes or explicit images. that is already happening, isn't it? and it has been happening. >> yes, using ai tools to create these often non-consensual deepfake sexual images is something that has been happening, i would say, for years already. now. >> okay, so npr is now reporting that openai is exploring how to responsibly allow users to make ai generated and explicit content. is there a way to allow it to be responsible about it? >> it's a really tricky subject. so on one hand, we do maybe want to allow educational uses, maybe artistic uses, but at the same time, the risks are so severe, there's so much potential harm that could be caused. >> and can we talk about first before we dive into what might be the harm, what could be educational or artistic uses for sexually explicit images that you currently like? if you go on chatgpt, for example, and say,

you know, write me something steamy, it won't do it right, it says, sorry, uh. and i think this is where they're at. they're trying to figure out, should we open up a little bit, and if so, how have the conversation? okay, so now give us some examples because i can't even imagine it. >> it is kind of funny to think about. i would expect that most people who are say sex ed educators are not turning to chatgpt as their first line for producing content, but maybe there are people who might be trying to say, create informational videos or informational pictures, or i would say most often will get text right, like a little lesson plan, perhaps for students and i could see chatgpt being useful there. and on. of course, for the literary side, i can see people trying to create stories, right? erotica or erotic fiction is popular and has been popular since the beginning of fiction, so it's not completely out there to think that this might happen. >> okay, so stories are one thing, words are one thing, and then videos are another, right?

videos are more compelling and they can be more damaging and hurtful. so let's talk about some of the things that you are worried about as openai has this debate right, what do you think are the considerations? >> one of the most risky things that we've seen happen are people using these ai tools to create deepfake sexual imagery of people without their consent, and this includes both famous people and regular people like all of us, as well as even children and young adults who are under age. so that is a huge risk. and that's something that we've seen happen again and again and opening the floodgates. more of that. i'm not sure if the benefits are worth that risk. >> just talk about the difference a little bit between deepfakes and ai generated videos, as i understand, the latter has no real video footage as a starting point, right? >> whereas deepfakes use ai, but they start with real footage of real people like that. nancy

pelosi one. and i think there's been obama ones, biden ones, basically every leader, every star, taylor swift, all that. right. >> so the ai generated videos actually do start with some sort of real video. and that's part of the issue with trying to fix the problems. we're not quite sure what video content was used to create or train these models that let you output these new videos. so if we don't know what content, what pictures, what images, what video were used, it's a little bit even harder to regulate than a typical, say, photoshopped image, i guess. >> you know, they as the makers of a tool, you got to think any tool that's ever been invented, it can be used for bad. if you will. right. and what you already talked about deepfakes for, sexually explicit images that have no consensuality to it. that's definitely hurtful. and we can all see that. but i guess where does a company like openai need to be able to draw

the line as they make decisions and weigh, okay, is that free speech? is that something that should be allowed or you know, that's something we can code into our system to not allow. do you feel like that is a tricky and hard thing for them? it's a very difficult balance. >> i think that companies like openai have been trying, so i wouldn't say that they're doing nothing, but it's very hard to balance the risks of all of this content versus what some of the users want, some, you know, good users who really want educational or entertainment purposes for ai generated content, but also a lot of people who are using these tools for bad. and those are the people that we have to be concerned about, and that the companies have to be concerned about. >> openai did issue a statement, part of it says it's considering providing the ability to generate such content in age appropriate contexts. i mean, they did say we have no intention to create ai generated

and that they have, you know, safeguards in place. but here you can see at the end they say, we do believe in the importance of carefully exploring conversations about sexuality in age appropriate context. so give us some examples of what that might mean. what does that mean? age appropriate context. it i could imagine that they might be trying to create a different set of tools or different set of access. >> maybe they'll say something like users under the age of 13 or under 18 can't access certain types of tools, right? they can't use these ai tools to generate certain kinds of content video, photos, and so on. and maybe adults will be able to do that. so that might be a limit that they could set. >> look, i also want to bring up just something else. it's not the same. but this is a different company. bytedance is tiktok. they just announced a new policy today as well. all videos, they say, including ai generated content, will include a label, you know, is that something that you think, number one, is this good? and two, can that be applied also to the

discussion? >> well, it's an interesting question. we could try to say that anything that you output from one of these ai tools gets marked with, say, an ai signifier, and that kind of watermarking is something people have said could be helpful, not just for saying this is non-consensual imagery, but also that, that might allow people to know when something is true or false, right? real information versus disinformation. so that might be a tool, a way to get around some of these things that could be helpful, right? >> definitely. and i also just so people know what's out there already, we've been talking about this. i mean, it's real. it is out there. there are all sorts of new apps, right? some i understand that can modify images of people. like does that mean if somebody had a picture or you or me or anybody, they can just make it look like you're nude and real? >> pretty much, these apps exist and they are terrifying. if you imagine how much people are able to do with them, and people are using these, the issue is that a

lot of those apps are not run by companies like openai or google, or the large companies that have ai tools. these are often apps that are run by smaller companies. maybe outside the us. even so, it's even harder for regulators to figure out how to fix them. >> right? i mean, certainly if they're out of this country, there's very little you can do. but within this country, within the rules that we have now, what kind of regulations are there for ai? as i understand, it's not very much right? >> not very much yet. but we keep hearing news about people proposing new laws, either privacy laws or ai laws. and a number of states have started talking about ai regulation. so either on the state level or the federal level, we're probably going to have ai regulations sometime soon. but at the moment it's not that easy. some specifically even about deepfakes, but others don't. so it really depends on where you are and where the companies are

based, and where the users of these tools are based as well. >> so bottom line, are you for or against open ai sort of opening the door to this? >> i'm not sure if this is a good time. i do think eventually we should allow people to use tools to create, you know, any sort of content that's within reason, right? within legal bounds as well. but right now, i'm not sure there's a way they can make sure that they allow these tools to be used for this purpose in a safe manner. and that's a really critical thing. >> all right, tiffany lee, associate law professor at the university of san francisco, thanks so much. >> thank you. >> up next, the battle over baby's parents here in the u.s. are using ivf to select their baby's sex. we'll look into the trend that seems to be taking off, if

did in nations like the uk, canada, china and india. it is legal in the us and more and more california couples seem to be choosing it. and a new article in slate magazine this week suggests that many perfectly fertile couples are doing the procedure because they want daughters and daughters only. joining us live now to talk about the process is doctor jeffrey steinberg, founder of the fertility institutes in los angeles. doctor steinberg, thank you for joining us. >> nice to be with you. >> what percentage of your ivf patients request sex selection and has this number been increasing? >> we're at about 94% right now, we've got a center that's totally specialized in sex selection. so it's a little bit biased. i think nationwide it's

probably about 15 to 20. >> right. i mean, it seems like that anecdotally and according to some of the stats available, it's becoming a real trend in family planning. i wonder if you have insight into why. what are the main reasons that couples patients tell you, the number one reason that we see people is some family balancing. people come in with five boys, and they really want that girl or five girls, and they really want that boy. so that's number one, number two is perpetuation of family names. you know, where the boy, wants that that that last name to continue on, and of course, there are cosmetic reasons, mom, had a sister and has two boys and wants them to have a sister, right? >> right. i mean, if you mention the family name thing, i imagine you probably get some, folks from china or india from other countries, right. where there is a preference for boys due to cultural reasons. but the article i read, and i don't know

if you're seeing that, is interesting. it's saying that, a lot of people are actually wanting girls because let's say you have these professional women in their 30s and they want to raise a strong young woman or have a daughter so that she can relate to the daughter, especially single moms, which is also a trend on the rise. are you seeing any of that? >> we absolutely are seeing it, there's been a big shift over the past ten years. in the beginning, it was almost always boys, and more and more and more we're seeing, we're seeing girls, you know, again, in china , the boys were a big, big thing. there's an actual shortage of women in china now. so the couples are coming over, looking for the girls and nationwide and worldwide. there just seems to be more requests for girls. it's shifted tremendously. >> yeah, look, and we're not here to judge, right? whether people want boys or girls, but but i am very fascinated by the fact that there are people who are perfectly fertile, but they want that choice, and they're willing to endure ivf, which, let's face it, is difficult and

can be painful. right? there's a whole lot to it, and it's expensive, that more people are making that choice more and more and more. >> we're coming up on 10,000 cases of gender selection now, which is, three times more than than our non gender selection cases, it's become more efficient. we're at 99.9% right now. we haven't had, a wrong gender in 25 years. so they realize what it's all about. ivf is out of the closet and, gender selection is now out of the cloud real quickly because i don't want to get terribly science y. >> but bottom line is, how do you do that? the process that ensures the sex of the baby. >> yeah, we do standard in vitro fertilization, basically, an egg gets together with a sperm and you've got an embryo once that embryo grows and we have to grow it for five days, we're actually able to do a small biopsy of the part of the embryo that will be the placenta, because the cells are identical. so right before we give that embryo back to mom, we do a biopsy. and 24 hours

later we get a report on each embryo boy, girl normal abnormal. so those, accuracy rates are again at 99. hum, how about other things? right. as part of this whole genomes thing and the test that you can do, are there other traits and factors that you can that you can opt for and choose essentially, such as eye color, height, things like that? >> right. we've got a patent pending on eye color. it was 12 years of research and tremendous interest in that, again, it's cosmetic. you know, people don't like their nose. they want a new nose. people want a boy. they want a boy. people want blue eyes. we get them blue eyes. so again, it's emerging, but we're the only ones doing it right now , but we're seeing more and more and more demand. we're able to prevent 450 genetic diseases that's built into the protocol. so if they say they want a girl, not only do we make sure that girl is that it is a girl, but we make sure that she doesn't

carry any of those 450 diseases. right >> i mean, when it comes to genetic diseases, i think most people would probably say, oh, okay, i get that. but when you start to get into the cosmetic things such as eye color, i'm sure there are people who ask you, do you feel like that is ethical? how do you answer those questions? >> well, i always say, never put the handcuffs on a scientist, because again, the progress that we make is, is panoramic. in other words, we're looking for eye color because it's difficult , but it's not as difficult as tremendously, devastating diseases. so it's all built into the system. and yes, we do get a lot of flak, but but again, it's you know, you don't like it. don't do it. >> right. >> if you don't like it, don't do it. that is that is always an option, with regard to sex selection, i want to bring it back to my main point for this segment. obviously you mentioned, you know, china where because of the preference for boys for a while under the one child policy, it became what, 110 boys for every 100 girls.

that creates real social problems, right? >> so they've got a big problem in china, right? >> so if it does create social problems or could, how do you feel about people choosing the gender here in the us, or do you think there isn't a problem here? >> you know, you know, with 10,000 cases, we've been able to study the statistics and the statistics are, believe it or not, that almost all couples that do this are split about 5050. we get just as many requests for boys as girls. >> are there certain regulations right now or do you foresee additional regulations? >> you know, it's unregulated. and i think one thing that the politicians have have learned in the us is to keep your hands off of people's reproductive choices every time they start something like that. you know, the ethical issue in alabama with embryos and it blew up. so there's no regulations on the ability to limit couples to choose what they want to choose. >> right. >> and is part of the reason it's becoming more popular that

more insurance policies are covering it, because, i mean, like we said, it is expensive, right? i think up to $20,000 each round. >> yeah, that's about $20,000 and no insurance doesn't cover it. in other words, couples infertile. the insurance will in many instances let them have in vitro fertilization. but the gender selection is an add on that the patients pay for. i see. >> well, i guess there's just a lot of people with the disposable income these days. doctor jeffrey steinberg, founder of the fertility institutes in los angeles. thank you very much for coming on the show. >> nice to be with you. take care. >> up next, bringing san francisco's famous victorian to life. it's a colorful gig, but far from a cheap one. more on the pricey paint jobs

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our media partner, the san francisco standard reports in this new article that painting

of victorian can be a six figure odyssey, and it takes a special breed of painters to do the task . joining us live now to talk more about that and the people who bring these colorful characters to life, is the standard's business reporter, kevin nguyen. hey, kevin. nice to see you. hey kristin. >> good to be with you again. >> hey, what prompted this story ? >> yeah. you know, some uh- a theme we've been circling as a team is, you know, the rising cost of homeownership, right? the mortgage is only half the battle. people or your viewers probably know that, you know, insurance is going up. utilities. all these non-mortgage fees. so one thing we kept hearing was, hey, have you thought about how much it costs to paint a home in san francisco? and we were hearing figures going as high as you said, $100,000, which can cover a down payment in most parts of the world. so that's what led us down this little rabbit hole. >> indeed. this is crazy. and i love that you went down this rabbit hole. by the way, how many victorians does san francisco have? >> yeah, i think the latest estimate is around like 50,000.

right. and these are the type of homes that are just getting built anymore. so it really is like maintaining history, right? >> right. which is probably why i mean, you can tell me, but why is it so expensive? because painting a home in the bay area is expensive, period. right? i mean, 20, 30,000 easy. but why does painting a victorian take it to a whole new level? what is entailed? >> yeah, well, i mean, they're not shaped like our average homes that are being designed nowadays. you know, where the walls are flat and we can get away with choosing, you know, maybe our favorite color and the little splash of white, victorians are asymmetrical. they got they have all these little trimmings, these columns that almost resemble a dollhouse . so, you know, that alone just requires so much more care, an experienced painter told me, you know, setting up the site is 60% of the job. so to get that sanded down and washed before you even apply a stroke of paint that takes a couple of weeks. so, yeah, that's why victorians will generally take either, you know, a month and a half to

three months to complete and six figures to pay for. okay. >> and that compares to what, for a normal home to paint. is it also like, you know, four times the, you know, time in the a standard standalone home and maybe the west side of san francisco will run you about 30,000 in the city, i pulled painters outside of san francisco, in oakland and in the peninsula and south bay. it's people usually pay around 11 to $20,000 to get the entire job done. so. >> okay. yeah. so yep. it's more intricate, takes more time to paint, got to take more care. you also have to use more paint, right? or more different colors of paint. and paint is expensive . >> yes. like i said there's just way more details to fill in. so you know, you can't just buy blue and paint the whole. and you could go, picasso and just paint it all blue. but, yeah, what makes a victorian stand out? and especially if, you know, viewers go around the city, they'll notice that the really nice ones have just all these little details and up to like six, seven, eight different colors. >> they do. are there rules, by the way, like historical

preservation rules that add to the cost. >> so unlike construction, painting is, doesn't require any inspection. it's mostly kind of unspoken rules. people on your street who will, you know, value these, this history in different ways will maybe chime in and tell you, hey, you know, have you thought about being a little more original? you have a victorian. >> okay. right. right, right. okay. so there is someone, a doctor color that you feature in your article who helps people with that being original with color. talk to us about them. >> yeah. so he doesn't advertise his services. but you'll find doctor colors work all over the city, he's this og san francisco character who's been in the business for about 50 years. and he's what's known as a color consultant. so i think, you know , for any viewers who are like me, who are not artists, you know, you could get some paralysis thinking about like, wow, i got to pick out 6 to 8 different colors. so people called doctor color. he spends an hour or two with them. you know, he's very old school. so as a flip phone and he still writes everything by hand, but he'll go room by room with you and he'll he'll try to get to

know you, get a sense of your style, how you've decorated your house. and then he'll look at the street and he'll design. he'll put together a color palette, that will be unique to relative to everything else. >> right? i mean, look, kevin, as someone who can't tell you the difference between prussian blue and cerulean blue, i would need this myself if i had a victorian, which i don't. so what does he recommending, you know, for those of us who don't know victorian or don't own one, but we would still like to know what's the latest palette, what you know, to look for. does he have color recommendations? >> well, it's, it's case by case . kristen. you know, he's like, that's why people pay him $1,000 to come spend an hour with them, it really depends on what you want to communicate, i spoke to a couple who just got their victorian who said, you know, it was only pale yellow before, but they wanted a place that was going to be fun, warm, inviting, reminded them of, like, hiking and the vacations they've gone to. so they they pulled out a caribbean blue water, a color

i've never heard of. so. >> okay, kevin. fascinating story. thank you very much for coming on. if you want to see kevin's story and more of the standard's other original reporting, just go to sf standa

since with experts from around the bay area. i tonight, breaking news. the deadly tornadoes touching down. 140 miles per hour. the storms now in the east. and yet another major system, the new threat right behind this. also tonight, the passengers escaping a fiery jet crash. the flames all around them. and just in tonight, the search for the