get rid of the government that does not want to make the necessary compromises. so remember how leonid kuchma's rule ended in 2004 . he signed an agreement on a common economic space with russia, belarus, and kazakhstan. in fact, ukraine already had one foot there. it was the final. and why lyanvit kuchmo signed this agreement, because there was a successful special operation to isolate him in the west. he understood that he would not be able to hold a pro-western one. by the way, here i completely agree with you that early kuchma and late kuchma are slightly different things, kuchma is in the middle and very late kuchma, yes, who left russia, went west, maneuvered, and then came to the kremlin again, but this is all thanks to zlubyanka's special operations, if it were not for the maidan of 2004, i assure you, we would have been like belarus a long time ago , well, it's one by one.

now let's remember the minsk agreements, the minsk agreements were our last such moment of resistance to this russian attempt to destroy our subjectivity, because ukraine did not sign these agreements, the same kuchma, who did not hold any positions, signed them again there, with representatives the official ones of russia, there with the ambassador of russia, from then on there was this protocol. with representatives of the occupied territories, but not a single ukrainian official, because it is obvious that president poroshenko was aware of all the consequences of being signed by a certain zakharchenko and platnytsky, all these documents were not signed, it was not as if it were a document on the regulation of relations in ukraine itself with people whose legitimacy ukraine does not recognize. but do you remember the destabilization of the situation after the minsk agreements? yes actually then it was not just destabilization, then they tried to split. ukrainian society

and let's remember these protest actions, there were a lot of different kinds of movements that came out, so against, against the minsk agreements, and we must understand that in principle this could also, conditionally speaking, be provoked and, of course, from within, from within country, they didn't even need to provoke someone specifically, they understood that the fact itself would already create a certain instability in the ukrainian government, simply. the fact that then the political forces that were after the maidan did not wanted to go to a tough confrontation, they simply saved the situation, by and large there could have been something already then that allowed it to advance further. now let's look further. in 2019, zelensky meets putin in paris, what begins after that? kozak becomes the curator of this ukrainian trend, and kozak is trying to pull our country into one fold. according to the other, this, as it

was called, the coordination council, with representatives of the ordlo, which was proposed by kozak, and with which yarmak agreed, and this, by the way, is the only official document with a signature a representative of the real ukrainian leadership with representatives of these occupied territories, it happened once, but again there was such sharp resistance that the president's office realized that this was a diplomatic mistake, refused to continue this process, and he did not leave, but if not was ready or, let's put it this way, if the opposition would have been stronger, more serious, if the authorities had not given up on this idea of ​​theirs, tried to defend it, you know, and it would have been a clinch, a conflict with the patriotic part of society, yes, they calmed down, no , they then proposed a military inspection of the ukrainian army with the so-called lpr corps, that is , as if you have an army and they have an army, and it almost, almost passed there at some stage , it was simply rejected. well, by

the way, let's recall, including the so -called disarmament, yes, which, by the way, was also offered to ukraine, and even there some things were allegedly implemented in this regard, not even allegedly, but in some areas were implemented, and this was also in principle one, there was one of these postulates, so to speak, about which you of course, we are now looking at the year 2022, the war has already started, the russian army is already half... is it already east, they are advancing, but the ukrainian leadership continues to work and is perceived by the population as legitimate, which protects the country from the enemy, what should be done, in order for the offensive to be successful, it is necessary to destroy the leadership and destroy mutual understanding between society and the government, and between the government and the military, so we need some kind of document that will help with this, the whole document is actually drawn up in such a way that later you can say, you see, they

gave up ukrainian land, we defended it, shed blood, but they gave them crimea, gave them over, agreed to the fact that we would not have control over donbas, agreed to... the fact that russian would be the state language, maybe they specifically for that's why they came to the authorities to inspect all, uh, properties of the maidan, that is, they specifically did all this in order to try to completely destabilize the situation, and thus get to kyiv more easily. do you remember that in the first days of the war, putin appealed to the ukrainian military and said: drop it already this power, we can come to an agreement much easier with you. that was it. part of this whole plan, did not work out, did not work out, and then the only thing they could do was to create certain information emissions in order to destabilize the situation again, and this is still not the end, but the chinese proposals are also

part of this traps, by the way, we will come to that later, after all, the clarifying question here is whether it was necessary... then to go to the extent of conducting negotiations with the russian federation, even at a perhaps not very official level, let's talk about those the first two months, well, you understand that if the russian federation was ready for negotiations, and they declared that they were ready to talk and meet, and the ukrainian side said no, you know, we will not talk to them, no matter what it looks like in the eyes of our allies, who generally believe... that any conflict must end in negotiations, after these negotiations took place, after the west saw that the russians did not want anything constructive, the west could say with a light heart to itself : yes, we have entered into a multi-year conflict, we have to confront russia, we have to help ukraine, we have exhausted all possibilities

of settlement, and if we had not exhausted, what would our neighbors in europe and the united states say to us about this, listen, they offered you to negotiate , you didn't even you... listened to what they wanted and you were in a good military position when they stretched the front there, they were there ready to go from the north, and why didn't you talk to them, what would we say, yes we couldn't help but talk, the question is what to talk about and how talk, you know, because if you accept an outcome that creates you a small army there and doesn't give you any security guarantees, you know, demilitarization with neutral status, that's effectively a recipe for death. do you remember that at that time the adviser to the president, the office of the president of ukraine , named oristovych, said that the war started in the first place because we have an article about nato in the constitution, but if we didn't have an article about nato, then, of course, no one would attack us, because we did not pose any threat to the russian federation, and that too

there was a political course, which i understand, a huge part of society understood, that maybe we are insulting putin, maybe we are somehow not taking him into account. security concerns, that's what many people in the west still say, you who serve russian political interests, and that somehow russia didn't attack finland, after finland really, you know, really joined nato, because we have always remember that integration into nato, ukraine and georgia is a phantom, no one has even invited us yet, and if there was no war, no one would have invited, and integration into nato, finland and sweden is real. it took place, and then the president of finland called the president of russia when finland decided to join nato, and i have the impression that he said, you know, mr. president, we are joining nato here, and on the other hand, congratulations i hear, what are you

calling me anyway, what am i here to get involved and get involved, that is, it is absolutely obvious that this is not a reason, but an excuse, russia did not do anything at all after the accession of finland to us. the finnish-russian border is more than the russian-ukrainian one, they didn’t even increase the number of troops there, they didn’t create any missile armies there, that’s how the border with nato increased, and the question always arises, why is the border in the east so important than the border in the to the west? they talked all the time about this flight time, remember, the flight time of missiles, but if russia allows ukraine... , yes first of all, there are realities, the troops of finland

really stood near st. petersburg during the second world war, here are the ukrainians who will reach belgorod or kursk. the athenian troops that were on the territory of russia, there of the soviet union, this is a historical fact, so why... then it does not bother you at all, from the word at all, and if ukraine is a member of nato, russia will have to buy everything for itself, that they there are white paws and felts to the nearest cemetery, we understand how stupid all this is, but i will tell you what the difference is, from where the attack is being prepared, as comrade lukashenko says, because for russia, finland is a real state, it really chose this right for itself, and again, it chose this right for itself by not only preventing russia. but stood under leningrad during the second world war, they began to respect it as a subject, and ukraine

is not a state at all, but a series of russian regions united in an incomprehensible subjectivity, that's all, and we need to realize this, i it seems that a huge number of our compatriots simply cannot understand this, and never could understand, i've been trying to explain this all the time, understand that the people who lived in soviet russia during... the entire existence of the soviet union considered russia itself to be the soviet union, and the people who lived in soviet ukraine believed that they were living in the soviet union , and most of them, you who lived in the eastern and southern lands of our country, considered even the soviet union to be their homeland, but they believed that it was ukraine, not russia, soviet ukraine, but not russia, and this is a completely different formed mentality, there is no way out of this, no it is necessary to nurture illusions and believe that the identity... of russians in relation to ukraine will change, at least during the lifetime of those who watch this program, their children and

grandchildren. bi, the russians, as they believed, still believe and will consider ukraine an integral part of the russian state, period. so what can we do in this situation? just not to give them the opportunity to take over this country? there is no other option. can we come to an agreement with them? is the answer negative? no. can we convince them that ukraine is not russia? no, we can't. and we don't have to, because it's not our task, let them rewrite the history textbooks for themselves, by the way, they are completely falsified and made up since the time of karamzin, it didn't start now, it started back in the time of alexey mykhailovych, i'm sorry, well, so we just have to increase the price of aggression for the russians so that they think that this is russian land, kyiv, kharkiv and odesa are russian cities, russians live there, they have to speak russian there, and... but if we go there , we will die, there will be a conflict with the west, a nuclear war, moscow will transform

in the image of bulgakov's novel, everything will simply burn, but if they think like that, by the way, about moscow, not about belgrade, if belgrade burns, not a single one, i would say, not even a cat in russia will lead the tail, but moscow, oh, here it is, oh, god forbid, not a single crown should fall from... this st. basil's cathedral, which, by the way, was built in honor of the destruction of the cauldron, it is not for nothing that it stands there, so by and large, this is our task, we don't have any other tasks, we don't have any other way out, any timeline, what are we we can say that it will end in the 20s and 30s, we don't know when, the entire life of modern ukrainians and their children may continue in various forms of low intensity, high intensity. let's join nato, it will be over. all these negotiations are just a sham,

a sham with the aim of destabilizing ukrainian society and annexing the territory of ukraine to russia. point. and this should be clearly understood. i assume that there will even be some negotiation process. but it will end in success only if russia succeeds in laying these traps in peace agreements. moreover, mr. vitaly. we must understand what is really the matter. it is far from putin, as some people think, because some people think, relatively speaking, that the matter is putin, what is here, what is here in essence, only putin, so to speak, is supposedly the personification of this evil, and i always say, no, in fact, the matter is far from putin, the matter is russia itself, in the concept of its existence, in the historical roots of its existence, its imperial and neo-imperial policies, and in fact, putin will be there tomorrow or not. if putin is not there tomorrow, the situation is unlikely is changing in russia, we must understand that this

system that exists today is the way it is, it must either be completely dismantled, that is, this state entity in its current form must be dismantled, or there will be a conditionally new putin, whatever he has there was no last name, well , look, we are the historical experience of the development of russia suggests that the russian government can be reformatted, so... realistically speaking, there may be a moment when russia is concerned with its own problems, when it is not interested in the outside world, or does not have the strength influence him there is always a window of opportunity, but for us there was a window of opportunity, it was very simple, it was called you... 1991-2001, relatively speaking, from puccio on august 24, 1991 until the end of the war in the caucasus. here is the window of opportunity. how did we use it? well, unless they declared independence. all subsequent decisions were one after another absolutely

unsuccessful, unsuccessful. we did not become part of the north. tical union, we did not want to get closer to nato, moreover, the vast majority of our compatriots with you were opponents euro-atlantic integration, even in 2004, when yushchenko came to power, when time was already wasted, to be honest, people were still against it, if in georgia they were in favor, time was wasted there too, but they were in favor, and here they were still against it, it must be remembered that the vast majority of residents of the selychs of eastern ukraine, destroyed today by russia, voted for pro-russian populist forces for decades, this is wasted time for the entire nation. and now let's see what our neighbors have done, whom we now complain that they are not enough for us help, precisely in this window of opportunity. central europe and the baltic countries, they joined nato, they joined the european union, they housed

western military bases. poland can now talk about the fact that it is ready to deploy american nuclear weapons, respectively, russian provocations in belarus, that is, the european nations lived this window of opportunity as it should have been lived, the ukrainians lived this window of opportunity completely incompetently, and again after all, they talked about it in the 90s, it's not like it is now i said, i wrote it for every independence day, not in did not pass film tests, did not get into the studio, did not fulfill, do not fulfill the decalogue, i was simply tired of saying things that happened to... every child, only on most of ours with you compatriots who stubbornly, if they suddenly voted for someone who was a supporter, turned out not to be, turned out to be a supporter of independent development, they quickly got rid of him, he was enemy number one for them, such was the fate of leonid kravchuk, viktor yushchenko and petro poroshenko, everything, and us

led to collapse, to fiasco, to war. now, what can happen next, of course, from this military process. there is no way out yet, but it may one day at least be found in a low intensity war, there may be a change in russia, andrew, and then the question is that we will have a window of opportunity again, it will not be long, uh, it may be there 10 years, then russia will show its imperial aggression again, when you live next door to a country like russia, a former continental empire that fails to... win the civilizational contest, you have to realize that at some point this sense of imperial aggression will prevail over common sense, because you see that everything they are doing is beyond common sense, beyond, they are again destroying their own economy, they are destroying their own ability of society to develop, they are destroying own economic assets, they close these

oil wells because they can't develop them, that's idiocy, but they did the same thing after 1917, they just do it all the time... they cut certain, i don't know, organs with scissors , and it's not foreskin, so in this respect it must be clearly understood, so if we succeed in the future those who will remain here, you in this territory that will remain, we do not know the number of the population, nor the territory, nor its fate, well let's say after some time, i don't know when it will be, maybe such a situation will be created in 2025, or maybe 2040, i don't know, no one. who doesn't know now what it will look like if we don't use, secondly, this window of opportunity, thirdly, because the first time we could use it in period 2, 1900 there 17, 1920, and it is also needless to say that no one used it, it was also used, someone was able to use it, but we could not, because again there was discord, misunderstanding of the task,

confidence that it was possible to negotiate with moscow, everything was the same exactly, do you remember that here in kyiv was sitting... the future chairman of the people's committee of soviet ukraine khristiyan rakovskyi, and he was simultaneously conducting negotiations with the leadership of the ukrainian state, pavlo skoropatskyi, and negotiations with the former head of the government of the central council, volodymyr vinnychenko, about the overthrow of the government of pavel skoropatsy, but vinnychenko had already talked, they talked about all this, that is, they believed that it was possible to negotiate with the bolsheviks, that is, everything was the same, so they did not use it then, they did not use it now, but fortunately we already exist on three years, and 33. and from this situation, if we do not use this opportunity objectively again, it will end in state collapse, sooner or later this state will disappear from the political map of the world. because you can't, you can't every time history gives you a chance, me the struggle for ukrainian independence,

to be honest, reminds me of this anecdote about a person who dreamed of winning the lottery, asked god why you don't let me win, went to church all the time, and god said, buy a lottery ticket, well, it's the same thing, we are always given a chance, god is merciful to ukrainians, he gives them a chance... and they are constantly thinking about how to drag someone into the naville, who into an apartment in the old khrushchevka, because they have to live a lot, and how else, better than a neighbor, and until then there will be such a mentality, the existence of the ukrainian state is not guaranteed, again, because we are opposite a country in which the value of human life. zero, in which the authorities specifically marginalize most of the territory so that there are soldiers from there, what do you think, it’s just like that, this is how russia mobilizes, i

assure you, they sat with the ministers of the economic bloc back in 2014, and asked them, will people go to war, and they were told, but you, why should they go, it means that the level of purchasing power must be reduced population, we rejoiced every time when we said that the russians... are getting poorer, but they got to buchi to the warthog, and right there their eyes popped out of their foreheads, because they suddenly saw wealth, what wealth, an ordinary life , washing machines and vacuum cleaners, and now imagine that if this guy from this buryat or kalmyk or russian village would live there normally, would receive normal money, would have money for an apartment or a mortgage, would have this washing machine and this vacuum cleaner, what would he... buy for himself on some alibaba, as it is called, what a fig he is would have gone to the army at all, so he didn’t go, he wouldn’t go, of course, so these people

think strategically ten years ahead, they understand how to prepare the population, when there is only one choice, either to join the army, or to military service, to join the army, here you go and the whole story, and these are actually completely realistic estimates, perhaps pessimists. realistic for some, but in reality this is life and these are the realities of our country, and until we fully understand this, until that moment we will repeat the mistakes of the past, because always, always in principle they say that we must take into account all the mistakes of the past in order to have the present and have the future, yes. the past, we don’t have a future, that’s all, and you were absolutely right about the 90s, and in the end, a lot of things were similarly lost, a lot of time and

zero, and even in fact we are picking up 2014, i mentioned, i even if we now open the ratings and look in 2013, the majority of people were against nato, 13th and 13th. how old is it 22 years of independence today, by the way, today, by the way, 207 april, this is the anniversary of the ratification of the kharkiv agreements by the verkhovna rada of ukraine, well, this is one more, one more proof of how wrongly we moved and how much we today, and i say once again, today and in the future must take all this into account, well, because even people did not even gather near the parliament, no one was interested in these kharkiv agreements, although it was already the end, and now... the other day i recently read the memoirs of a well-known ukrainian diplomat, leonid osovalyuk, whom i have known since the time when he was consul general in moscow, and i also

got everything, he tells how he, as a representative of the ministry of foreign affairs, during the time of kuchma had to ratify the agreement on the demarcation in the sea of ​​azov, and how he was brought the russian project before the meeting between kuchma and putin. and they told him that it was necessary to ratify the russian project, which actually created it for this sea of ​​azov, the internal sea of ​​russia, which happened as a result, and as he said, he would not sign it, but viktor medvedchuk and anatoly orel, deputy head of the administration of the president of ukraine for foreign policy, in which everyone considered both of them to be people connected to the kremlin, and not to ukraine, and these are the people who manage the administration of the president. they said: no, get a visa, and leonid kuchma turned out to be the only person who said no, without a visa at the ministry of foreign affairs, i will not sign anything, but this, listen, but this is because kuchma was not

yanukovych, kuchma wanted to... maneuver all the time , and if there was yanukovych, everything was signed in general in russian, and for me i remembered how i myself was present at negotiations on the delimitation of the sea of ​​azov, in other times, when our deputy minister of foreign affairs, anton buteyka, came to moscow, it was before sovalyuk, and we did not have sea borders with russia at all, as you know, and they did not arise, and he brought such maps of the general staff of the armed forces to these negotiations. russia, the soviet union, i apologize, because on these maps, unlike others, the sea border was drawn, and the deputy minister of foreign affairs of the russian federation said: what is the significance of the map of the general staff, what kind of map is it? and i saw that they were simply mocking this unfortunate representative of ours, that is, russia knew for sure that it was impossible to draw any borders in the sea of ​​azov, because they already then,

then... had in their heads that sooner or later will have to capture mariupol and berdyansk, which means they need their ships to be able to legitimately, legally get right under our ports, and they achieved this, by the way, they achieved this in crimea the renewal of the black sea fleet during yanukovych's time, the fact that they were constantly creating such positions for themselves, in fact, they again tightened this burden on our necks, and we ... giggled and said that it should be like this, i will remember for the rest of my life a whole propaganda campaign that was against me in the early 90s, because i saw it differently then than today, i was a very young person when i said that if we agreed on cheap gas with russia, we would never have there will be a normal economy, there will never be a normal state, what will we be to be completely dependent on the russian smile

and... by the way, look at the map of europe now, precisely in those countries where russian gas continues to make up 50% of the total energy balance there, these are hungary and slovakia, that is where all the pro-russian forces are triumphing, and look, let's look at ukraine, where all these gas issues created a whole, i would say, network of people interested in relations with russia, and not those at all. in the east and south, where is the main ukrainian university of oil and gas specialists? well, you know where, as far as i understand, this is the west of ours country, because these compressor stations were the main ones there, that is, in fact, we are witnessing how this foundation,

the foundation of the occupation of ukraine, was created step by step, pebble by pebble. yes, yes, they were preparing the occupation of ukraine in various ways, and economic, political, cultural, and informational, we should also talk about this, and this issue has been raised in essence only since 2014, about the informational occupation that in the head, people's heads were pouring out, what lies, what propaganda, how much they tried to connect us with this russian peace, yes in order for a part of the people... who could at least perceive it, to feel that they belonged to this russian world, of course, but again, it all started just when the russian czechs came to power and understood how to deal with all this to work, how to use this potential of russian tv channels, which were watched by a huge number of our compatriots, in order to instill in their lives all their ideas, and what happened before that, i

remember dmytro kiselyov came to kyiv. so to work on the ictv tv channel, where i also hosted for a short time program, and dmytro kiselyov says to me: "vitaly, you know, i have a dream, here i am bringing my programs about how wonderful it is to live in europe." well, he made a series of programs for russian television about the european way of life. and i say: great, so what? they must be shown to the ukrainians, that the ukrainians knew that the future of their country was in europe, i say, well, they must be shown, of course, but before that, dmytro tells me, they must be translated into ukrainian. you don't want it to be in russian, ukrainians have to think about their future in their native language language, so that it would be convincing, so that they would see that this is their future, and not just a russian journalist there, telling them something in russian, this is the same dmytro kiselyov, who now goes to the ramp in russian propaganda channels and they say that we everyone must be destroyed, burned, radioactive ash, that's all.