stories and the people who allow us into their lives, dignity and democracy john offensive, and you're a bike, china as president. the so it's a win support for his vision of a multi polar wells countering american dominance. and the evening trade and investments with countries to start getting close to beijing. so they sheets even painting succeed. this has insight story, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm the fucker. china is present aging thing is wrapped up his 1st visit to europe in 5 years. he visited from serbia and hungry during his trip with a different tone and agend with each stop. but she's over, arching goes with constant count to us, simplest way can. and further trade and investments to sure up a slowing economy. so one of the takeaways of paging from she's trip,

we'll explore these and other issues. well, i guess until somebody, it's time the 1st the support by capture lopez or the china is looking for more friends in europe and hungry is looking for investors strategically. it appears they found their match on the last stop of his 5 day visit to europe. president, teaching pink and prime minister victor or bon signed several agreements in budapest to boost their economic ties from funding during jobs shown fund and done it. the we'll strength and development strategies deepen, cooperation and economy and trade. investment and finance will postpone with the construction of t projects such as the budapest bell great railway. this construction site, an eastern hungry reflects the partnership on a $1000000000.00 chinese factory that will produce lithium for electric vehicle batteries. chinese batteries for chinese cars to be sold inside the european union

in a corner make a judge correspond to we used to live in a one cent a world older, but now we live in a multi center. well, one of the pillars of this new world order is the republic of china, which now defines the costs of wealth and economic politics though you may have good stuff. in fact, most recently, both countries have faced resistance from the european union with their support of russia's war and ukraine, fueling those tensions. i'm at a strain relationship with the was some say china is using hungry as a bridge to tap into the european market. china's push to strengthen ties with eastern european countries include serbia, it's set to become the 1st european country in the years to enter a free trade agreement with aging. and july. cheese visit is seen as a sign of defiance to the west, nato and the european union. some and serbia are concerned about the partnership. i generally think that the from forwarding investors in serbia,

this country cannot profits for most of them are looking for just to extract profit and sign these companies are not any different much of western europe remain skeptical. despite a bid to warm ties with friends, there were reportedly no major concessions on trade or foreign policy during cheese meeting with presidents and monroe, my crohn access to europe and markets, and the war and ukraine remains sticking points. you know, coming to the memo, we get into this, our memorial friendship only has meaning if it means a helping hand to pull a few minutes, he and all of the twins, which faces and c classic as well as geo political. who, despite tensions with the west, china wants to solidify its economic footprint in europe through new partnerships. but it's unclear in the long run whether such ties will help or hurt it's new partners. capielo priscilla again alj a 0 for insight story. the,

the wireless brain, i guess in beijing, david, mom, the founder and chairman of mine, china, he advises multi nationals on that. china strategy and expansion. steve sang, directs the so us china institute to the university of london today. he's joining us some don't think i'm in the u. k. i'm from bell grade. then i'd stick huge a research fellow with the think tank, the institute of international politics economics a very well welcome to all 3 of you. welcome to inside story today, but i wonder if i can start with you in recent news. your relationship with china has come to be known as a quote arrival competitor partner relationship. it seems like a contradiction in terms. what do we mean by it? i think it is a contradiction in terms of your individual countries and companies want to trade with china, but i'm kimberly tremendous pressure for us to restrain themselves with doing so.

and because of the need for support and fighting in the or supporting the the, he's crazy and i against the russian invasion, america's leverage is much greater than 0. so she's trim, it is important because it needs to try and recover a relationship that has begun to atrophy under us pressure. now do you agree with that? can you be both partners and rivals? definitely for us. and we haven't because that is the stapleton presidency. but your opinion is going to take, i think the most important parts of contemporary china, security not only security, but for employees to as well. so definitely for china in your opinion, include the both authors rivals, depending on what kind of area of social life. but we are referring to, if you have a set of friends and security phenomena that are joining universally score and ukraine, i definitely believe that there are some avenues to which both sides can cooperate

to the future. worse, a. hi steve. i wonder if we can start with president. she's a presence in front because the president emanuel macro made no secret of the fact that he wants friends to defend its political and economic ties, which china is bob sentiment truly reciprocated, though, by paging. well, because he's something to be seen very much appreciate a live. in fact, the chinese foreign policy approach has always been guided by what stay cool to unite to fund of coach. the united front is just about it was most sophisticated, the mind and who approach ever when germany was on the end of the co, china is peace, both part and the last hole ways too many was seems to get a pen you the end. but we could change a government in germany, france and the press,

the max wrong has becomes the most trying the friendly of the big e u member of space. and that's why they have turned their focus on working with from biggest problems is more we set to go to the chinese approach and the choice of the 3 locations we country school visit very much. we faxed the walk through to being feels comfortable with what steve has headed to that very close thing is that he believes the looking behind. all of this is by much a divide and conquer policies of a cynical way of looking at china's presence in europe. recently, of the status perspective that i respect very much steve's knowledge of china, i'd say from someone who live in virginia. i've been here for the last 40 years that seems suddenly united front or even. but china has a leverage that it was fixed and mentioned that has isn't so strong. i think the

issues here very come on much. what are the things that china really wants to make sure i wish that it's well, i'll just try to compile your remains. so the compatibility between the european countries economies and china is, is, is very good, it remains and there's tremendous cost potential for that. whereas the american relationship, what us for d p by the geopolitical tensions and you kind of know you're on a path towards thoughts when you know, politics becomes the greater driver rather than economics, where as i think you're a but still and they get on with the issue, and when we look at the situations that china's assessing, such as building vehicle plants and countries like hungry, here's an option that people try to add some venue. not just use a platform in europe for cheap labor, but actually transfer technology for real passions. so the challenge for china was to take things a different way. and i think by a considering to do that, they have

a need to because they've been very much containing these days. not just following on from what we just had given all the value that china could potentially bring to europe. just remodel view is around the table there in paris wasn't just a manual. my chrome was also us live on the land, the head of the european commission. she was the sending the common e you message, but how united is b, e u. when it comes to china, it definitely will not subscribe back to the stance that china intends to divide and conquer europe. footboard especially european union. on the contrary to this trial, actual meeting that said you beach has helped with mccomb and also slip on the line . and also please don't forget to jump in general of shots was in the visit to raging a few weeks ago also. and then to you, prior to these visits, to, to friends and all the shots and mccomb shift gathered together to unify, to solidify their expenses towards the china. so i think that actually the european

unit is the really, really trying to speak with one single voice. i guess, i guess in the needs only said to us, china and china really respects these kind of cooperation between paris and berlin . i would also say, so this is why i disconnected to my stance is why in china believes that to your opinion is going to take indeed the top, the top of your time though it's a foreign policy in the near future. yeah, interesting that you bring up in the absence so things you have and sean slow left shelves. so i wonder what that says about the sensitivity surrounding the you and china relations at the moment. i tell you, but i wonder how the reported rise in cases of china spying on european states human rights record in china. the treatment of the minority muslim leaders in china, how one of these issues complicate the desire amongst some of your pay and states to forward deeper relations with china. they certainly make it more difficult of all countries style and everyone all the time. if we remember years ago,

barracka bama landing in berlin and there was a revelation that the annual medical studies being hit by security people. so it seems that there was to teachers, releases of information around sex, was that i wouldn't put too much to buy them. that only human rights front and a lot of frequent visits have to sit in john. there a problem say i particularly on the south around fits him. but in general said john is nothing like it is described in america in europe. so i think these are issues, the issues of imbalance as in china. those issues are press freedom in the houses era. here, there are many things which one can criticize a little china. let's come down the fundamental need in motion. i think here we are looking at the european union, the needs economic growth,

these links and also china has tremendous needs to, to capitalize on the recovery cost. kind of that, it's now joining strategy. everyone wants to new trying to and china to and i agree that there was some possibility there working with europe. there may be a, a, literally a enter that or a c 5. all right, just but let's pause for a 2nd cuz i want to share some more information with all of us because some i've, let's say present. she used his european visit to wu, you'll read while exploiting it's divisions. would say it'd be a candidate for joining the but not a member. he was able to sign a free trade deal with she for president alexander vintage also went further saying bel grade was also signed up to a quote shed future advising. and this vision of a new world order in budapest prime minister, victor, oregon, has long been at odds with follow. e. u. lead is over major policies. even telling them they failed and should leave the chinese president. so to win him over with

plagiarism, investments in energy transport, she's in ping promise to move forward on a $2100000000.00 project to connect the capitals of both countries as part of china's and vicious belt and road initiative. steve, returning to you is china trying to draw a wedge between european states each of these even understand the you 25 years ago. they understand that he, you extremely well now, and that's exactly why they put so much emphasis on calculating the relationship with hungry. because they know they only need one power, whole allied with feeding the looking union and then the capital a lot of what your opinion may otherwise wants to do under the leadership of the ones that i end in house in gauges which china. so i think that these

certainly, and even tensions for future being in this message to be friend, europeans and we all think it'll be in to p needs. but he is doing it with a very sign up centric approach, which means that a pop from the countries that he is visiting hungry, so it'd be a and so, and that's extended frost is not actually winning over at the public opinion finished. and it will be in union more or less the just as well as the terms. so i would like to steve. yes, exactly. i would like to drill into this a sino centric approach that you prefer to you say that if he really wanted to bridge the divide and i'm send a joint message, he'd be visiting brussels, the hops of european union as opposed to selectively choosing his country's light that is talking about those countries that he selected to visit. let's talk about home. be in a minute, but let's focus on serbia now. as i mentioned earlier,

it's not an e. u been by, it's traditionally always been close to russia present. she was landmarking 25 years since the nato bones, the chinese embassy in belgrade. something washington says was a mistake. no doubt. what does this visit say to you? it seems laden with symbolism. of course, yeah, it is actually just being blazed 25 years after the chinese embassy in belgrade. it has been hit by tonight. told me science this is correct. and despite told you, i guess is chinese science probably will never, i would say, believe, disclaim that it was funding turned into strength. i would say definitely 25 years ago. and this kind of the thought check has because outraging china not only within the chinese leadership and chinese presidents at that time. ready was john, so me, but also the streets we have, but we just massive protest against the political last and i believed and actually

which makes closer to 2 countries. serbia and china is definitely this kind of on to western political sentiment that has been arising within the actually it's never seas of the bombing time. so he is 25th anniversary of the day of the embassy kids was definitely be indeed huge symbolism. and even here within the domestic public today, many people are actually referring to this as a very important connection chai behind the 2 nations. david mana shed onto west and sentiment shed between serbia and china. i understand you visited the side of that boat and the embassy soon afterwards. as you read this. well, my impression was that one. it was of the into town that it was home since i happened this big mistake. i do remember the ministry of defense where besides 10 street corners and going straight into your administrative defense and the rage very surgically. so i don't believe for a moment was a mistake. but the child was,

we kept the time america read edge. and you could do something like this and send a message. so it's a complex situation. and the other thing that there was a sophisticated plan to split your china. it was cowardly planes. what strengths were a can. and these are relationships where china believes that can get somebody can on the gains and get a set of position in some countries in europe, rather than deal was the more conflicted in general politics around china. the gemini faces. nonetheless, i think it was a mistake. oh she not to go to brussels. i think you should have gone to berlin attached to london, showing a confidence and a kind of broad sense of europe. now, i don't know what advice he was given, but to me that was a pity. nonetheless, i wouldn't worry too much into the space in your scenario,

and i think china is vain enough to think it can do this. but they do know where they feel they will be welcome, where they can announce concrete projects in really kind of in terms of, i think that has been one of the main drivers of disposable. steve, let's talk about precisely real economic terms. because china is, we know, has been investing huge sums of money into, so it'd be a massive infrastructure projects. i've been to several myself with that. i'll just share a huge bridges opens by, by saying with great, so find a fair in the country. so it'd be as present alexander boot church, cools the relationship, an iron clad friendship. what's behind it? do you think? well, china does need friends in europe and for a 5 year old can stand this relatively small country line. so the, it is easier for china to make a huge impact then even trying that was investing in one of the launch remembered

stays, hope that you will be in union, where they haven't much because you call them ease and therefore the same level of trying these investments simply would not have been seen as so significant a scale. so they are actually very, very smart. and i think we have to recognize that she can ping seemed. so s h one's formation already the were you know, miss ambitions for china. she knows what he's doing. he is not stupid at all. he is a very small. right, right. yeah, let me jump into the, let me, let me jump in the steve because as you say, he's a small operator. he knows what he's doing, not. why then, would you go to hungry? the cycle, bad boy, if your opinion probably one of the most disruptive states as part of the, the 27 member blog, criticized by brussels multiple times, the origin of little,

not playing bull. if china wanted to exploit you divisions, you've got to put a past, right? well, this is the 1st time that could be, this could be correct, but please do not forget that you're kind of to read this thing over the last 5 years, a dose of the so called sign of skepticism or the skepticism towards cooperating with china in general. from the old central and eastern european countries. so there is the sub, but somebody should do 70 plus one, which according to my opinion, unfortunately, is counting for dissolving. because a few years ago, we saw some baltic states between you in 2021 has decided to result from this initiative. and also it was followed by lots via and this tony as well. and then, but we also have some kind of, i would say that some of the chinese sentiments. so i think that actually budapest is seen from badging side as the partner in central and eastern europe, which is the, you remember state of the same time which surveys not. so surveys the us,

i remember state um, so i believe that actually the great corporation ties that to see has made with the hungary on the message towards both european union and all the countries in europe . that actually joining tends to so we define its presence here in central and eastern europe and also please do not forget that actually china has promised. ready to build a huge factory with ease of electric line vehicles in the south or city of the 2nd game in hungary, which will be fully free to exports to the western europe and markets. which if this factory was based instead of it would not be the case of the possible because you know, it would be farther from not do you remember states to export this kind of vehicle . so i believe actually the, these 2 visits this, those dates, state visits promo for best belt range, but also internally, you know, please do not forget that the very 1st term both of you for structural product within the belt thrilled initiative has been built exactly here between the best high speed railway, the very 1st one actually in the balkans, if i may,

if i may say so. so this is very important. you can contribute to public image. the positive dimension both gardens serve, publish site, okay, look, catch up when as we approach the end of this conversation, we can't really talk about china, your opinion relations without talking about the kind of pressure other likes of it . my new background, the other you lead is hope, the china will be able to put on russia to end the war. busy in ukraine is from saw other even nations over estimating how much health china might be able to offer when it comes to ukraine. david, i think so try it doesn't touch it broke the deals, for instance, as the americans have in the past. um the, the initial record at camp david, when you had yes, our 5 and there was a piece deal to sort out. americans react to them that way as europeans, the chinese facilitates but they don't involve themselves under discussions on the

same way. that's in the law, and ukraine is bad for everybody. and what if the china makes ice the weather and saying they support russia? and certainly they want this to end as soon as possible. so we may see something a little more active. but we can see china and a waste and since, but they are trying to be branches of active way. they tend to be facilitate, isn't that the bodies, as saudi arabia and around it recently come together and reached the agreement facilitated by china. facilitate but don't get involved. it says david, steve, what you make of that is a well, where do you the who can deliver a shuttle diplomacy between moscow and t? it is champagne. he's chosen not to do that. is a, well, really the, the cruelty and a has to listen to it is china,

the china. so stays the russian bull you calling me. so you can be really want to put pressure on that the 10 most and the fruits and with somebody do exactly what you're giving us games to do. but we're not seeing should have been even attempting to do that. instead, she didn't bring, takes a consist of the inconsistent policy to was to ukraine goal, which is one of the kind of waiting neutrality supporting to protein and refusing to pay any price for it. and that's why china is not providing weapon systems to russia because that will ultimate to the trigger sanctions, therefore, a price for china to pay for anything sort of dead. china is doing to help the russians, the sustainable as it is not a bi copy, not a normal copy send approach. china takes a, sorry, let me throw that to you. do you think that you are p leaders are being

a little bit too hopeful about how they may encourage paging to get more directly, politically involved in solving conflicts in eastern europe? it is, of course, the 60th anniversary of french chinese diplomatic relations ukraine. as we know has become a meat grinder, while the incentive can you or offer if a tool to get china more involved looks. yes, i believe actually that ukrainian crisis goes promoted and i would say revealed new china rolling in global mediation issues. because if you remember these, the recent uh, 12 points plan issued by a piece of aging for resolution or for settling the situation in your brain. we could both is this kind of mediation diverse that's, that's actually a are aiming to promote china is a global x are capable of resolving the global security issues. and he new rates at 0 p and give you an interest rise to mistakes and too many homes that will change in international arena. currently everything's regards to to the printed prizes. i

think actually that european union leaders should rely more on trying not to do these. uh, let me get put into start this kind of for i would say i would also agree with, with my previous instructor said that extra, the only person, the only capable agent nowadays that he's, that he's accepted by both ukraine, both your brain, your opinion, and also the rest of the innovation would be definitely, since you're being so this is the political capital. i believe both sides should accept as a new reality and try to launch their strategies towards china then. then i think so that we've got about a minute left to david. if i can give you the last word soon as you all over the in the page. and i want to know about the chinese audience, what message will the chinese president give to the chinese population on returning? that's the country a well, the opponent is already very favorable and better as the nature of the chinese media. yeah. people who wants to find out another angle content on

a vpn so they can what job to 0, they can read from 24. they can look at their support for other well so but in general it's, it is already being presented as a successful trip. so they kind of stand way when he returns i think the thing is, the idea that there's a room full support pressure no more than crime is wrong, based on the will, hasn't gone along with the sanctions that america says i was in the or is a mux, those shot us just training as usual, and the speed of increase, of course, but the audio, but apparently supporting the war here. then it's not the case. is it ever? and so i switched interest. so china, across the board is charging its own cost. david mon, steve saying that 2nd, it's been a pleasure to have you on inside story many thanks for your time gentlemen. and of course, thank you to for watching you see the program again, any time by visiting our website? how does 0 don't com for further discussion?

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